Stagea Group Buy Whiteline & Bilstein

[wolverine]

I had a quick look and it seems to be on the 4th from the top circlip on the rear and 3rd from top on the front giving an all around ride height of 365 from centre of wheel to arch.

The front is one groove higher than I want but there was a slight knocking noise coming from the front and there was a small witness mark on the shock seat so going higher seemed a way to rule out that as a source. It turns out the noise was a broken exhaust mount that was perfectly stable unless you gave it a really big vertical heave.

The front lower bush on the shock is looking a bit second hand already and needs replacing whenever it comes off again. It seems stageas are hard on them.

[DaveB]

Thanks that's a series 2 isn't it? I'm not sure how many grooves from the top I am - I counted mine from the bottom lol. Plus I'm pretty sure the rears I have have had some extra grooves machined into the top... so I'm 4th groove, counting from the bottom, on the rears and 3rd, counting from the bottom on the fronts.

Pretty sure I'm well below yours though - think there's about 5 or 6 grooves above, and my ride height is the same (about 365mm). Though since I have the same springs (stock), and series 2, I don't know how that can be... I am measuring from the centre of the centre-caps... it seemed I had to drop the spring seat a long way though to make a difference. Maybe I need a few more K's to bed it all in... can't tell if it's hitting the bump-stops but it squeaks a bit when I drive up the 45-degree angle kerb into the driveway etc. (all round). Feels better than yesterday. Done almost 150K's now. Still pretty harsh but improving.

I plan to trim the bump stops some more and maybe go up a groove front & rear. After a couple hundred K's more driving. Then a wheel alignment.

[DaveB]

Hmm, thinking about it, if I lower the spring seat by, say, 40mm, the car sits 40mm lower. The spring is compressed/"pre-loaded" with the weight of the car, exactly the same as when the spring seat was higher. But now there's 40mm less travel. So I take 40mm off the bump stop. Travel is now the same as original, spring "pre-load" (if that's the right term) is now the same as original... so what is the reason for the ride to get harsher? Why does the ride need to get any harsher/NVH increase? If suspension travel and spring "pre-load" is the same, I must've done something wrong to make it 200% nastier...?

[wolverine]

I think it will need more time Dave.

Many other people have changed springs at the same time and have ascribed the increase in firmness to the springs but as you can feel, the new shocks are a big factor.

[DaveB]

Thanks, yeah I'll give it a while see what happens.

[DaveB]

Another pointless question... in the beginning of the thread re. fitting instructions, trimming of bump-stops is mentioned.

Unfortunately most of the images have been lost. But I have been able to work out from the text & images in SK's gallery that he always advises to trim the bump stop from the thicker end, so as to make them more progressive etc.

So how have people done this, since in the stock bump stops, the restriction which keeps the bump stop trapped at the top of the shock shaft is in that part that has to be cut off. ie. when you cut that part (like I did on the rear bump stops), the bump stop is then free to slide up & down the shaft, and will inevitably spend its life sitting on top of the shock body and sliding up and down with each bump... which is not really desirable... if you see what I mean? How have other people gotten around this?

[DaveB]

Hopefully this fixes the images... I think this post *with pics* might be useful to me (maybe others too)

  Sydneykid said:

For the guys that are ordering the Bump Stop and Dust cover kit. You will have to trim the bump stops to suite the correct height that you are going to have your car set at. The dust cover clips ove the end of the bump stop stop so you have to trim the other end with a knife, be careful it is easy to slip and cut yourself.

This is a picture of what the bump stop and dust cover assembled would look like at higher than standard height;

This is how much much to trim off the bump stop, shown next to a standard Skyline bump stop. The orange line is for standard height, the red line is for ~350 mm centre of wheel to guard and the yellow line is for ~330 mm centre of wheel to guard.

Note that standard height is 2 circlip grooves up from the standard circlip groove, ~350 mm is the standard circlip groove and 330 mm is 2/3 circlip grooves down from the standard groove. You can pick the standard groove as it has a yellow stripe accros it. Plus the circlip should be in that groove when you get the shocks.

If you are using the standard bump stops they also have to be trimmed if you are going lower than standard height. You have to trim the thick part of the standard bump stop, not just cut off the little lump on the bottom. That would make them very harsh at first contact. You will need a hack saw as the rubber is very tough. The red line (no trimming) is for standard height, the yellow line is for ~350 mm centre of wheel to guard and the orange line is for ~330 mm centre of wheel to guard.

Hope that was of some help, if you have any questions please post them up here as it may answer other peoples queries as well

cheers

Edited January 29, 2010 by DaveB

[DaveB]

Note that in the last picture above of the standard front bump stop, the yellow and orange lines indicate that one must trim the bump stop below the top.

Once the bump stop is trimmed like this, it will no longer sit captive at the top of the shock shaft, but will instead slip down until it's sitting on top of the shock body. Then it will bounce up and down with every compression of the shock absorber, making an annoying noise

Does anybody have a solution for keeping it captive at the top of the shock, after it's cut?

The reason, for those unaware, is that the hole through the bump stop constricts right at the top, meaning that's where it catches on the fatter part of the top of the shock shaft (below the thread, where the little washer thing sits), causing it to remain there and not slide down all the way (which is a good thing; keeps it at the top of the shock shaft).

Edited January 29, 2010 by DaveB

[DaveB]

Solved my harsh suspension issues (fingers crossed)

Note to self from now on: always cut off as much from the bump stop as you lower the car!

My (already worn shorter) front bump stops, which I thought I shortened enough, had been pummeled rather badly and the last of the thinner part had been broken/squashed off; the passenger stop had been squashed so badly it had fallen past the collet thing at the top of the thick part of the shock shaft and fallen down to rest on the top of the shock body (and I had heard something rattling around there). It has obviously been riding the bump stops pretty bad and that accounts for the very harsh ride. Also explains why it seemed to improve a little over time! (as the bump stops wore down!)

Once I replaced them with the super-spongy Bilstein bump stops (hooray for compliance) - trimmed about 20mm shorter (erring on the short side this time!) - it now rides as smoothly/quietly/calmly as it did stock. The difference is amazing, it's like going from off-road to tarmac. I've yet to see how long these super-spongy bump stops will last at the front, and whether they will fall down the shaft and make noise (I don't have the special rubber dust cover things in the 1st picture above to hold them at the top of the shock shaft - they're just a tight fit at the moment).

Edited February 21, 2010 by DaveB

[Big Fella]

are these kits still available at the discount rate? and do you need to run the bilstein springs with the coilovers or will the stock springs to the job?

[KiwiRS4T]

  gsr600guy said:

are these kits still available at the discount rate? and do you need to run the bilstein springs with the coilovers or will the stock springs to the job?

That group buy was many years ago - i think you'll have to look for your own best deal! Unless your Stagea has done a hard 300,000km your stock springs should be fine with the Bilstein shocks. Height can be adjusted with the Bilsteins - no need for "lowering" springs.

[Big Fella]

  KiwiRS4T said:

That group buy was many years ago - i think you'll have to look for your own best deal! Unless your Stagea has done a hard 300,000km your stock springs should be fine with the Bilstein shocks. Height can be adjusted with the Bilsteins - no need for "lowering" springs.

yeah i knew that the actual group buy was ages ago, but i noticed that SK had organised different valving for the bilsteins or something like that, therefore i want to see if these shocks are still available, my car is a fresh import with only 57,000km and i don't really want to put gts-t rear shocks in it because of the extra weight.

[DaveB]

  gsr600guy said:

yeah i knew that the actual group buy was ages ago, but i noticed that SK had organised different valving for the bilsteins or something like that, therefore i want to see if these shocks are still available, my car is a fresh import with only 57,000km and i don't really want to put gts-t rear shocks in it because of the extra weight.

The stagea shocks are in the Bilstein catalogue, so you should be able to get them through any distributor. Or, you could try SK direct... I did, and was lucky that he had some in stock. That was at the end of last year, so he does still have some sometimes.

[skidkid]

gsr600guy.

Did you find any bilsteins to suit? Ours needs shocks asap.

[skidkid]

Nobody chasing shocks?! Are you sure your old shocks are not leaking??!! Whilst under wagon this week I noticed a leakn rear shock. Time to go a full set!

[wolverine]

Old thread bump.

Has anyone replaced their lower front Bilstein shock bushes and if so where did you source them from?

Does anyone remember which shock was specced by SK? Was it the R32 GTR or R33GTR front shock?

Keen on sourcing the right parts before removing them and would be much obliged if anyone can help out.

[Trex]

May not help you. But from memory they were 32

[wolverine]

That is what I recall but the boxes are long gone...glad to have one more memory at work.

[Trex]

I had a look in the suspension thread but couldn't find where I read it. Someone bought new ones and they were the same as 32's.

[KiwiRS4T]

When I needed repairs my local Bilstein agent had the parts in stock. Maybe phone them first to see if they keep parts or have to order them in (or I can give you details of my shop in Auckland). PS don't forget the custom valving. SK is still contactable...for info - don't know if he still has access to parts.