Whiteline Swaybars - How Many Stiffness Settings?

[JCMarshall_Law]

Sorry I know there was a thread about this some time ago but I can't find it.

Do the whiteline adjustable swarbars for the R33 have 4 different stiffness settings? There are four holes but the link only reaches two of the holes in the stock position - Does the link have to be turned around to reach the other holes?

Help would be appreciated.

[Sydneykid]

Sorry I know there was a thread about this some time ago but I can't find it.

Do the whiteline adjustable swarbars for the R33 have 4 different stiffness settings? There are four holes but the link only reaches two of the holes in the stock position - Does the link have to be turned around to reach the other holes?

Help would be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we talking front or rear stabiliser bar?

There are usually 2 holes on each arm of the stabiliser bar, that gives 3 stiffness settings (1 and 1, 1 and 2, 2 and 2).

cheers

[JCMarshall_Law]

Front, there are four holes on each arm of the sway bars.

I don't think you can use the 1-2 hole configuration to give an intermediate stiffness setting. If you use the 1-2 setup each side of the sway bar will have a different torque arm, so it will handle differently depending which way you are turning.

See pic attached

For arguments sake, say one torque arm is half the length of the other, a force F1 on the shorter arm would translate to a force F2, only half that on applied to the other side. Obviously the lengths are no where near 50% of each other of each other, so the effect would not be as great but I'm sure it would have a negative effect on the handling of the car.

[Sydneykid]

Front, there are four holes on each arm of the sway bars.

I don't think you can use the 1-2 hole configuration to give an intermediate stiffness setting. If you use the 1-2 setup each side of the sway bar will have a different torque arm, so it will handle differently depending which way you are turning.

See pic attached

For arguments sake, say one torque arm is half the length of the other, a force F1 on the shorter arm would translate to a force F2, only half that on applied to the other side. Obviously the lengths are no where near 50% of each other of each other, so the effect would not be as great but I'm sure it would have a negative effect on the handling of the car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a long and complex subject, that even the experts can't agree on exactly.

Regardless of other minor issues, your example is not exactly correct, you are looking at if as if the the two arms of the stabiliser bar are separate. But they are not, they are joined by the torsion part of the bar itself, so the effect on one arm is passed through the bar to the other arm.

The anti roll effect is the action of one wheel working on the other wheel, via the stabiliser bar. It is not the chassis of the car working on the wheel on one side. The bushes on the torsion part of the bar allow the bar to rotate freely and pass the kinetic energy from one side to the other.

Most race cars have in cockpit adjustable stabiliser bars and I can assure you that they only adjust one arm of the stabiliser bar to change the anti roll. This is basically the same as using #1 hole on one arm of the bar and #2 hole on the other arm of the bar.

There is no argument between the experts on this issue, the only point of argument is the effect of the angles of the links. Which is pedantic in the extreme.

cheers

[JCMarshall_Law]

Yeah, I know that is pretty much the accepted situation, but I have still have not convinced myself why, so my post should have been worded more as a "why" than a statement.

I was trying to do the maths, but work is not paying me to think about my car so I presented the quick and simple model above. I did model the swaybar as a two arms linked by the torsion bar (I just drew a simple end on view of the bar). and the forces F1 and F2 are the forces acting on the suspension through the bar due to vertical deflection of the suspension.

I am certian I at least know the general principal of the torsion bar and how they work, I was in the 2002-03 UQ Formula SAE team and I was involved in a limited capacity in the development of the suspension (spent more time building engine parts).

I have not really spent the time with a drawing pad in front of me so maybe I should keep my mouth shut till then, but if you can help me understand why it doesent matter if the torque arms are different on either side of the torsion bar, it would be appreciated.

Can't answer my question in the first post? I'm pretty sure I just turn around the link assembly to reach the other holes although I though someone would have come across this issue. I'll take a pic when I get a chance.

[Sydneykid]

Yeah, I know that is pretty much the accepted situation, but I have still have not convinced myself why, so my post should have been worded more as a "why" than a statement.

I was trying to do the maths, but work is not paying me to think about my car so I presented the quick and simple model above. I did model the swaybar as a two arms linked by the torsion bar (I just drew a simple end on view of the bar). and the forces F1 and F2 are the forces acting on the suspension through the bar due to vertical deflection of the suspension.

I am certian I at least know the general principal of the torsion bar and how they work, I was in the 2002-03 UQ Formula SAE team and I was involved in a limited capacity in the development of the suspension (spent more time building engine parts).

I have not really spent the time with a drawing pad in front of me so maybe I should keep my mouth shut till then, but if you can help me understand why it doesent matter if the torque arms are different on either side of the torsion bar, it would be appreciated.

Can't answer my question in the first post? I'm pretty sure I just turn around the link assembly to reach the other holes although I though someone would have come across this issue. I'll take a pic when I get a chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know I am not knocking your knowledge or experience. But I have had this discussion with heaps of people and they just can't see it. Then I explain it several different ways and eventually one of the explanations makes them go, OH I GET IT! Let's see if I can get you....

Ignore the fact that the stabiliser bar is bolted to the chassis. The left arm is attached to the left wheel and the right arm is attached to the right wheel. The left arm is shorter than right arm. The force required to lift the right arm is the same as the force required to lower the left arm and vice versa. This is because the leverage ratio and the movement ratio are the same.

Did that do it for you?

cheers

[JCMarshall_Law]

Yeah, that was along the lines I was thinking, I'll sit down with a pen and paper and convince myself now. thanks for your patience.

Had the track day today in the pooring rain so I gave up with any serious playing with the suspension anyway - just had fun sliding around.

[JD_R33]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I've been wondering the same thing. I have a Whiteline front swaybar on my R33 with four holes as well, but can only get the link to reach the second one.

Didn't think the link could be put in any other way either......

[Sydneykid]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I've been wondering the same thing.  I have a Whiteline front swaybar on my R33 with four holes as well, but can only get the link to reach the second one.

Didn't think the link could be put in any other way either......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Care to post up a picture or two?

One from the front and one from the side.

I have never seen an R33GTR front stabiliser bar with 4 holes (on each arm), mine has 2 holes.

cheers

[JD_R33]

Actually, mine is on a GTS-T but I'll try and take some pics on the weekend anyway.

[GTRgeoff]

I can help. Had this prob myself. The GTSt has 4 holes in the front bar OO OO in this config and to get the hardest 2 settings you have to have the suspension compressed, soooo jack it up, then put blocks or ramps under the wheels and presto, the link goes in.

As the man says, hope that helps

PS SK tha rear still has 2 holes but anyway, does this now mean the front has 16 settings or 10?

[Zahos]

I have asked this same question on the whiteline forum:

http://suspensionparts.info/showthread.php...d=2318#post2318

I still haven't attempted this, but I'm sure I'll figure it out when I have a look. By Waynes description. there should be another mounting point for the linkages, and they will not mount up in the same configuration as they do in the standard position.

Below is apic of the swaybar:

[GTRgeoff]

No what he says is correct. Swap from left to right on the vehicle. Once you see how it goes it will be clear.

[Sydneykid]

PS SK tha rear still has 2 holes but anyway, does this now mean the front has 16 settings or 10?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

4 holes each side = 7 different settings (that I use).

1/1, 1/2, 2/2, 2/3, 3/3, 3/4, 4/4

1/4 is ~ the same as 2/2, 2/4 is ~ the same as 3/3 etc

Due to the angles on the links and the resulting leverage changes, I wouldn't suggest having 2 holes difference eg; 1/3.

cheers

[JCMarshall_Law]

I've added a couple of pics of my setup. Like I said earlier, it seems you can turn the link assembly around at the top (see my scribbles on the pics). Note: I have not read the answer to this question on the whiteline page, I might change my mind after I read that.

EDIT: Just read the post on the whiteline webpage, it makes perfect sense, seems I was right, you just need to swap the links between the sides of the car, not sure why but I'm sure it will make sense when I give it a try.

Thanks to those who gave a hand .

Edited September 4, 2005 by JCMarshall_Law

[Zahos]

No what he says is correct. Swap from left to right on the vehicle. Once you see how it goes it will be clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I got under to have a look and realised what he was on about.

You need to swap them around when going from having the top bolt mounted facing the rear of the car, to mounted facing the front of the car, otherwise the bottom bolt of the linkages will be facing outward, pointing away from the bar itself.

Looks easier to install the front bar than it is to install the rear....

Edited September 5, 2005 by Zahos

[JCMarshall_Law]

Yeah, I got under to have a look and realised what he was on about.

You need to swap them around when going from having the top bolt mounted facing the rear of the car, to mounted facing the front of the car, otherwise the bottom bolt of the linkages will be facing outward, pointing away from the bar itself.

Looks easier to install the front bar than it is to install the rear....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks eaiser to install the rear... unfortunatly it is not.

You need to remove the undertray / sump guard and the radius rods. Not really a hard job at all just takes longer.

Just make sure your car is level when you do it otherwise the car will shift when you take the radius rods out and they are a bit of a bugger to get back in. The car will shift slightly when you do it no matter what you do so you will neet a block of 2b4, a lever (1/2 bar) and a mate to help. It will make sence what to do when you get under there.

I installed mine with all 4 wheels on ramps (level, with all weight on wheels). Someone may know if it is ok to do it with the front of the car jacked up (both front wheels off the ground obviously). Without having done it, I can't really see how that will be a problem, although, the instructions did at least say to tighten everything up at normal ride height. Don't take my words as gospel check the instructions.

Just one more thing to remember - hand brake works on the rear wheels only!!!

Edited September 12, 2005 by JCMarshall_Law

[JimX]

No what he says is correct. Swap from left to right on the vehicle. Once you see how it goes it will be clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought I was smart and did this of my own accord without needing to ask Whiteline about it. But a few months afterwards, I felt a clunk and the steering went a bit wobbly. I had a look under the car and noticed that the metal bracket which the left side link arm attaches to on the chassis had snapped off!

Needless to say I was impressed by the strength of those things and disappointed in the strength of the bracket. Unfortunately due to the stress involved it was impossible to get one of the nuts off, so I had to buy a new link arm. I still have the broken bit of metal bracket as a souvenir.

It went several months without any problems like this so it just could have been a slightly defective mounting bracket on the car. But I would still advise anyone that wants to do this to re-inforce the bracket somehow. I went back to the second-softest setting after this happened.

[GTRgeoff]

2 of the front settings are unreachable if the wheels are unsopported.