Cracked Piston = Bad Tuning

[CRD]

Just to let you all know

[raz0r$harP.UK]

Mirko mate on the flipside to what everyone's saying: there are good tuners, but that doesn't mean they'll always do a good job.

I tried to do my research, find a tuner who was well recommended..their interpretation of a 'safe' tune = knock levels through the roof, and when I asked for my AFRs a week later they fobbed me off. (It wasn't CRD by the way).

Sorry about to hear about your engine though, is C&V doing the rebuild/tune?

[Sydneykid]

just to give some insight into what casue JETT to fail at the last WSID meet, after many weekes of waiting the engine is out and motor was stripped, not long after the bottom end was apart we found NO#5 piston cracked all the way down the side, and after taking the piston to many workshops all experts have decided and confirmed that the piston only cracked due to the TUNE being very very  lean and detonation caused the piston to crack

If that was a piston from one of our race motors, my first question would not have been about tuning. I would have been far more interested in looking at the data log of what happened in the last few minutes of the engine's life. The old truth serum (logged data) doesn't lie.

cheers

[Guest two.06l]

Admin

This thread is a joke, I believe I have said this a number of times before about this sort of thing........threads like this should not be allowed.

I was at CRD that day and at the drag day. Saw JETT up close....IMHO....I'm not surprised you broke it. The car is rough. Nothing to do with CRD. Wreakedhead please control yourself, you are an embarrassment.

[wreckedhead]

Why dont you mention that i strongly recommended to you that the need to have a nos rpm limit switch so that the nos wouldnt be turned on at very low rpm and cause a backfire and high rpm limit to prevent the nos running incase the vehicle runs on the rpm limit of the ecu.What about the thermostatically controlled nos bottle warmer that you were told you needed to prevent nos pressures varying from 700psi to over 1000psi,a whopping 30 percent variation at the nos nozzle (delivery to the engine).

Jim Souvas

CRD

Tech Engineer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody mentioned anything to me about a NOS rpm limit switch, or i would have put it in on the day,, and as for the nos bottle warmer I already had a thermstatically controlled bottle warmer befor i came to the shop and after i got there and the bottle was installed by your mechanics, the so called thermostat mysteriously broke, anyways i checked the bottle pressure everytime i turned it on and warmed it up, it never went over 850psi. there was no 30percent variation in bottle pressure as i kept it under strick control..

Why dont you add the fact that you picked up the car on friday nightthen on saturday when i saw you againi asked you about the cars performance and you mentioned you had tried it and it was fine.

well i drove the car on the day to day tune you did for me and like i said it was fine, but i had not driven the car on the race tune casue i didint have a chance to race yet.

why dont you mention the fact you ran the car without nos on the first pass (low 11 sec run)next run you forget to turn on the awd and ran with nos staying on the rev limiter for sometime before backing off.Its all well and good to point fingers and lay blame to others,but unfortunately you only have yourself to blame

firstly just to clarify i never ever do a burn out on the limiter, I strickly always hold it about 6-7k, as for the the second pass and not putting the awd switch back on, i accept resonsability for that in forgetting but popping the clutch and changing through first and second gear then backing off, isnt likely to crack a piston i dont think.

If i recall correctly all you wanted to do was run the car on sunday so you could then sell ti ASAP.(palm it off to some poor unsuspecting person)I also recall you personally bagging the shit out of some of the other shops you have dealt with in the past so i does not suprise me that you started a thread like this and yeah why didnt you/havent you approached us and show us the components you are referring to and tell us what you found.

Everyone on this site knows im trying to sell my car, and everyone knows i was racing on the day, running a great pass would have been excellent, and palming it off to some poor unexpecting person wouldnt have made a differnce casue everyone knows who i am and where im from, Ive always mentioned the car was stock and never stated anything else, so as far as that goes unsuspecting wouldnt be the word i would use in this case. as for bagging the shit out of some of the other shops that ive dealt with in the past, I recall on the day i said that ive been to C and V befor and they used the power fc hand controller to tune my car and i wanted to try someone that used the datalogic to try and see if i can get a better tune, unfortunatly casue my power fc wasnt compatible with your software we procceded to tune with hand controler, i think thats where you have made your mistake in thinking i was bagging them out. If you are interested in seeing the piston that cracked its not a problem i can ship that over to you with no problems what so ever so you canhave a look yourself.

also to be honest with you jim, i dont care what people write on the forums, im just stating what happend to me, and thats it, i dont want or need any money, nor am i asking for anything from you, I belive SAU forum gives people the right to say what they feel and also mention performance workshops they have visited and dealt with, being good or bad. so if this thread gets closed or deleted ill know that SAU is bias towards people and members can only write /talk about what suits the admins,

[Demon]

Sorry wreckedhead but that setup on a stock motor sounds like a receipe for disaster...

By what Jim is saying, he advised you on what needed to be done to help prolong engine life but you just ignored him...

You can't blame the tuner. They provided you with a service you asked for and then advised you on what needed to be done to assist it but sounds like you ignored them....No use pointing the finger!!

Anyone good luck with the engine rebuild.

[T0nyGTSt]

I belive SAU forum gives people the right to say what they feel and also mention performance workshops they have visited and dealt with, being good or bad. so if this thread gets closed or deleted ill know that SAU is bias towards people and members can only write /talk about what suits the admins,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No forum gives anyone the 'right' to say anything bad about any company.

If Christian wants to delete this thread he's just protecting himself from any potential litigation from CRD.

Forums aren't exactly 'sounding boards' for peoples various grievances.

T.

[MattSR]

I have seen jims work up close on a friends civic that made huge power... his tuning is top notch... Nothing wrong with it. He has been trusted with engines worth more than yours and hes delivered the goods many times.

From what I can see in this thread, you got what you asked for - caveat emptor.

Its your problem mate - not Jims.

Edited September 12, 2005 by MattSR

[raz0r$harP.UK]

I belive SAU forum gives people the right to say what they feel and also mention performance workshops they have visited and dealt with, being good or bad. so if this thread gets closed or deleted ill know that SAU is bias towards people and members can only write /talk about what suits the admins,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only bias we have is protecting Christian from any possible legal action that someone takes against him as owner/operator of SAU, from any individual who sees slanderous / libellous remarks.

Think it won't happen? It has happened before in Australia to other forums - overclockers.com.au for one were shut down for a while after a business took them to court following an unhappy writeup.

There's no problem with freedom of speech here. Unfortunately if someone slags off a business, Christian is responsible for what they say in the end.

That's why there is no problem with mentioning good workshops, but if you've had a bad experience try and keep it via PM, away from any potential problems..

[Guest DIRTgarage]

Was it you who requested Jim to push the car harder to make 1KW more than us........just so you could have a brag figure??

I dont like to ever say bad things about the quailty of people's cars and how rough they are

so I wont!

Edited September 12, 2005 by DIRTgarage

[hungry6]

I say let air out all the dirty laundry, But honestly on that stock set up with a t88/nos.LOL. What was going through your mind?

I've built and done a few motors in the past, but I'm still come to term with what you're trying to achieve, and then distance yourself from any liability. I've never dealt with CRD for that matter, but the instruction to tune the car to the X amount has to come from someone, and I hardly believe a workshop would risk blowing a motor up and chancing with the associated headaches.

Have the big end bearings been looked at by anyone? It's another way of trying to look into the history/life of the motor before it die.

[Beer Baron]

i don't see any problem with this thread wreckedhead has stated his problem and his thoughts on it, and CRD have provided their side of what happend. i don't think it will do any great harm to anyone. if it was all one sided then for sure, close it. but at least in this case CRD have had their say.

[BBQ]

Seriously man pull your bloody head in, If you expect a Motor to last pushing 429rwkw with NOS and STOCK INTERNAL running C16, you really have no idea.

If you ask a workshop to tune your car for max performance they will, But its up to you make sure you motor can handle it.

As for the Air fuels they are fine for a motor that is built properly and isn’t running stock cast pistons. Ever head of the Term “FORGED PISTONS” they are a great investment.

What do you expect, you run a stock motor at 429kw and its going to last you all day every day for the next 10 years ???? Once you start pushing the limit of a stock motor it’s going to start breaking things. It ain’t rocket science.

[CRD]

Quote of the day from a GTR owner at CRD on 29/07/2005.

"I DONT WANT TO SPEND ANY MONEY ON THE CAR, IM SELLING IT"

Jim Souvas

Tech Engineer

CRD

[Bobjones]

I just grabbed a Cascade as well...

I am actually VERY impressed that CRD managed to get that much out of the engine and for it to last as long as it did, even on "Street Tune"

The fact is the ring lands should have been the first to go melty melty, so the tune appears to be within a realm of somewhat safe...

A cracked piston is a usually indication of something going horribly wrong at a certain point in time, and having Nos this would be almost positively one of the MAJOR contributing factors...that and the fuel cut limiter...

To be honest, if I had a stock engine producing that much power, and looking at the AFR's, I would have already saved money and parts for the full rebuild...albeit that I would have done it in the first place.

At the end of the day tuners follow what you want as a customer, they also let you know, and are obliged to do so, what safety margin there is, also what can go wrong (no one can predict when) and what precautions you should make.

Shit happens...I had a piston ring collapse, on an engine that had done 40,000km log book klms...I think you should be counting your lucky stars!!!

Edited September 12, 2005 by Bobjones

[[[d a n n y]]]

man i thought your car would have had a rebuild and froged internals to run that power

but..wow shit..no nothing...

i think that's 1 of th things

eventhough the tune maybe spot on...

the engine will not last long as it will be under so much stress

[wreckedhead]

like i said befor im not looking for anything other then to state what i was told by 4 differnt workshops, all said the tune caused the piston to crack, im not a mechanic but if the shoe fits, what can i say.

[predator]

of course its illegal to mention online in a public forum to everybody when these incidents occur.

keeps everybody nice and in the dark, and not able to make up their own minds about these incidents.

i love it.

It is afterall his own personal opinion, nothing more.

[gtst4d]

With a thread like this and getting this long and it did take CRD a few post to get on it, the admin needs to place a note at the start of the thread saying that it is 1 persons comment and should be read in full. I think that peoples comments are good in forums like this but when they can sound damming people need to know the whole story and not read the the first post only.

[DoughBoy]

Hey Mirko all problems aside I think you can look at a couple of things..

1/ You drove the car by yourself to an awesome time

2/ That's a shitload of power, and for a stock bottom end it's maybe too much cylinder pressure for cast pistons

3/ Using a single fogger system can create variations in mixture distributions, as you cannot dictate where the nitrous and fuel are going to end up. Could have been something as small as too much gas/not enough fuel in one cylinder.

All in all congrats on doing a good time, on a stock bottom end motor making a shitload of power.