My Local Touge And Grip Track

[zaffa]

didnt drag racing start on the streets hahah this is goin in circles....clearly once upon a time it all started on the streets illegally...

[Kaido_RR]

well, different forms of motorsport, for different tastes i guess.  (i'm not going to argue the definition of "motorsport").

I don't see why people get worked up about it.  If you don't like drift, just don't watch it.

Why should you be worried about the perception of skyline drivers due to street drift?  If your car is legal and you obey road rules you shouldn't have any trouble with police.

Are track people jealous because drift seems to be "the big thing" at the moment?  because really who cares, I was interested in drift before it became popular in Australia. And speaking from a drivers perspective, nothing much has changed - except there are more events. 

Just because I don't like V8 supercars doesn't mean I can't recognise that the sport requires a lot of skill, and I hope people don't have the perception of drift as "doing a burnout around a corner" which suggests it doesn't require skill!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

couldnt agree more, Drift require a huge amount of skill its a Control Slide not a f**king burnout around a corner thats called a burnout around a concer not drift.

And as a sport gets more popoluar you must see that more people will get into. Doesnt mean they know how to drift or what its all about but they will still talk about it and think an ae86 is the best thing cuz it can beat an evo/gtr/fd/fc etc etc...

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

speaking of drift...

If anyone vic is interested Sat 24th at winton is gonna go off!!!

http://www.fulllock.com/ for more info

There is also a thread in the vic/events section

[NickR33]

he he......... plug!

[lang]

Theres no reason drifting cant be considered a sport. Not all sports are about who can can go the fastest/highest. Think of rythmic gymnastics for example, the winner is who can put on the most artistic display with their bodies. Sure their are technical criteria to score points, but that is no different to drifting which has its own set of technical criteria used to score points.

And for me thats what its about, someone being able to put on an artisic display with their vehicle, demonstrating their ability to control it.

also, IMO true drifting isnt about massive powerslides in high powered cars, which seems to be todays trend, its about using weight transfer and momentum to slide the car and using the minimal power available to hold on to the slide, im most impressed by a slide that has no smoke rather than heaps, but i must say im the minority.

[Paradizzle]

Can someone change the heading of this thread, i f*cking hate the word Touge, also Grip track sounds severely gay. Sh*t makes me angry.

[NickR33]

in the defense of drift... if it isn't a sport neither is surfing or any of the X games events... very hard to prove and you would be terribly unpopular trying to do so

[dangerous_daveo]

didnt drag racing start on the streets hahah this is goin in circles....clearly once upon a time it all started on the streets illegally...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sideways circles? Or grip circles?

Maybe crop circles???

Im feeling dizzy thats all I know!

End of the day, Roy doesnt like his car being called a drift or 'grip driving' car. He want it to be called a club/weekend car.

[Roy]

The actual people invovlved in track sanctioned drift days are a great bunch. Their very helpfull and really tollerable of the other types of cars that are involved. Its the crowd that spectates and the keyboard drifters that give everyone else a bad name and its really a shame to be tainted because of a few peopel who lack common sense.

Personaly i cant wait to get back out on the track again both drift and circuit racing. They both involve a high level of skill and both can be hugely entertaining for myself and spectators

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and thats awesome and why club level motorsport is so great. (lol i included drift in motorsport

But,

Why should you be worried about the perception of skyline drivers due to street drift?  If your car is legal and you obey road rules you shouldn't have any trouble with police.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I havent had any trouble, never been booked and do drive responsibly. Shouldnt doesnt mean i wont....but with drfiting now being organised and accessible i hope more people start to take it off the street.

Are track people jealous because drift seems to be "the big thing" at the moment?  because really who cares. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL...i dont get it??? Why would the booming popularity of drifting bother me. Its good, it means the gates of tracks are open more often. If i want to go have a bash i can....i dont too often though as i feel its too hard on my poor car. As long as club Sprints etc days arent cancelled then i dont care. And i dont see that happening anyway because drifting isnt suited to most Australian tracks.

Again if a lcoal series takes off then its more people on the track, lets just hope the organisers encourgae its members to keep it on the track...so the blow ups resutlign from silly media exposure and govt legislation allows us to enjoy our respective hobbies

[Roy]

End of the day, Roy doesnt like his car being called a drift or 'grip driving' car.  He want it to be called a club/weekend car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Close...but its not what they call my car, its the connotation that its used for street racing. Actually that wasnt it at first but talking thru it thats probably the reason why i dont like it.

I have never ben pinged for anything. Does that mean anything, not really. Does it make me a better driver or person ...not it doesnt. It just means im sh1t scared that i will fall under the hammer of the courts if i did. Its doesnt even mean i agree with the laws.

Originally it was just a gripe about how easy it was for japlish to filter into our domestic scene.

And for the record, i aint got nothing against drift, except the fact that i suck at it and cant really do it. I stir up a few friends who love it, simply because they never seem to do it, but with more organised days then that will hopefully change...

Merlin, i was hoping to go to the Winton day, but it appears there is a PIARC day on at Phillip Island so im going to give that a nudge isntead...but will do a day or two in November / December when the track days dry up.

[GTRgeoff]

So which of you fails to take the link from the whole street misadventure aspect and the bad influence it has on our perception in the public eye. Several stated that it started on the streets, therefore implying that it's ok to continue that way and will be impossible to stop. How do you think drag and circuit ended up on closed controlled surfaces?

Street racing or the like is something we on this forum seriously deplore as it reflects upon us all when it makes the news, and makes us a target for the constabulary.

Sure other forms of motorsport started on the streets, a bloody long time ago. Doesn't make it any more right now when there are appropriate venues. It's childish to think otherwise. People used to keep slaves once as well and not everyone was considered equal in the eyes of the law. Sounds good enough, right? Or is it different? Maybe someone will just call it a different name, maybe it'll catch on and be cool. I hate the thought that anyone could consider there is no double standard in that. Just because someone else does it somewhere doesn't mean it works for us.

So don't ever consider that by falsely adopting someone elses culture that it will be OK here to do things illegal and attempt to justify them on this forum. Copying everything is just an admission of a lack of imagination and creativity. We've always been pretty good at doing it our own way in this country so don't clone the Japanese street scene.

I honestly do appreciate the effort put in by drift drivers and the skills they demonstrate, and sometimes it's entertaining, especially when stuff I was learning 20 years ago in rally is renamed something cool and modern. I'm yet to see a drifter pull a full scandanavian flick. A gravel rally in a rwd car is almost a complete drift event against the clock. Of course most of that is gone now with the focus on WRCars and the unlimited traction they generate but people still compete at the club level, even though CAMS have pretty well forsaken them for FWD/AWD.

I think mostly though I'm unwilling to sell out a culture that I've made my own for many years for something that is mostly a copy with different names, as though history is unimportant, or a little research too hard.

Just enjoy your drifting on the track, and if you make our next track day at calder bring a helmet becuse passenger rides are back on

[GTRgeoff]

BTW Roy, do you think Scotsman has that video of me at Chaps Laps?

I'd love to post it up and have it scrutineered to demonstarte I enjoy a good slide session as well as anyone else.

[Roy]

Not sure, but thankfully there is no footage fo me trying to drift ...id drather stand naked in the street and be ridiculed for having a small pecker, i see that as better then having my driving ability challenged:)

[monkeykplunk]

Here's some judging criteria for drift for those who might be interested....

---------------

What are the judges looking for?

Drifting is a sport that is judged similar to ice skating or Snowboarding. Just like any sport, there are criteria to look for. There are minimum requirements to a good drift that everyone must understand such as:

Entry speed-This is part of the criteria that will be met very easily with the use of a radar gun with speed display. Entry speed is one of the most visible aspects that judges will look for because it will determine the other parts of a driver?s drift.

Line clipping-This is another part of drift that the judges will be looking into. The "Clipping" line is often judged by how well the driver take a drive line. The line itself should always involve the vehicle hitting the right apex of a corner. Judges prefer to see a driver take a tight line around a corner, putting the nose of the car as close as possible to the apex of the turn. Getting the back end of the car close to the outside of a turn also demonstrates car control and can score the driver additional points.

Angle and counter steer-Driving angle of the vehicle is the angle of rotation of the vehicle relative to the direction of its travel. Basically this means that the farther the back end of the car comes around (without losing control), the more points a driver would score in this category. Angle also refers to the length of time a drift is maintained as well as the average angle of the vehicle during the turn. This means that getting the back end to come around for a short period of time won?t score the driver many points, even if the angle of rotation was significant. A vehicle that exhibits extreme angles without spinning out will be awarded high points.

Presentation-How a driver puts speed, line and angle the best will score very well with the judges. There is also another factor and that is how the driver presents his or her drift technique. Just like any other form of competition, there will be an individual with a certain spark or energy that makes them stand out during competition. When a competitor puts that extra flare or energy into their run, the judges may pay more attention to the individual. The most universal component of this category is smoke. The more tire smoke generated by a vehicle while drifting the more points a driver will score. This category previously included the driver sticking hands/legs out the window or opening the door in a turn, but D1 now requires windows to be rolled up and prohibits door opening, demonstrating a shift in emphasis to more technical aspects of driving.

How is "Tsuiso" Battle Judged?

"Tsuiso" is the Japanese term for "Twin Battle Drift". This head to head style of drifting is judged by the same principles as a solo round. However, there is a high level of strategy behind it that provides for a competitive level and an awesome show for the spectators. The exact judging of this event is difficult to explain because the judges rely on their many years of track experience and knowledge of the vehicle dynamics when issuing the exact points.

Offensive: Generally the chasing driver has the offensive when in the Twin Battle. An easy analogy is Cowboys at a rodeo competing in the round up or two jet pilots engaged in a dog fight. They chase their prey and do what ever they can to get their target into a dead zone where the prey cannot maneuver from. This same principle is used in the Tsuiso style. Driver use their vehicle and its drift to position into a space that minimizes the running drivers ability to keep a good line while staying in a high speed drift. The chasing driver MUST at all times demonstrate a superior drift in order to A) Keep the pressure on the lead driver B) Steal and block a line that may allow the lead driver a good opportunity for a drift. C) Be awarded a superior number of points If a chasing driver is unable to keep up and maintain pressure on the lead driver this will not be good when the time comes for points to be awarded.

Defensive: When a drive takes the lead in the Tsuiso battle the ideal strategy is to perform a drift a a much higher speed, good line, and a greater angle than the chasing driver. If a lead driver can shake off or intimidate a chasing driver many times the chasing driver will make a mistake when trying to compensate for what seems like erratic actions of the lead car. When a lead driver can pull away with a good angle, following the ideal line while maintaining a controlled drift, the chasing driver has all the pressure to increase performance. The lead driver at this point is winning. Lead drivers many times demonstrate superior skill by suddenly entering a drift at a great angle and going directly to the inside of the corner. TO the following driver it appears as though they will T-bone the lead car so they back down and take measures to avoid the lead car. Many times that will cause the chasing car to loose a great amount of speed and not be able to properly execute the corner in a full drift… or even worst they may spin out or hit the barriers. This is a ideal outcome for the lead driver in Tsuiso battles.

------------------

It must be said at this point that I am a fan of all motorsport really. The action of propelling a vehicle around a track (whatever form it might take) really gets my blood boiling.

But out of all motorsport, drift and rally are the ones I respect most.

The act of getting a vehicle virtually out of control, and then keeping it on the edge in the smoothest way possible is something which most people couldn't learn in a lifetime.

Although, I am in complete argeeance that just because something starts on the streets in some far of place in the world, does not mean that that is where it should be when we finally start taking hold of it.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

Merlin, i was hoping to go to the Winton day, but it appears there is a PIARC day on at Phillip Island so im going to give that a nudge isntead...but will do a day or two in November / December when the track days dry up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, I wasn't having a go at anyone when i said "maybe track drivers are jealous of drift publicity". I was just throwing up an idea.

I'd been hoping to have my car ready for Winton but I got a call from the place who is fixing my car and it won't be ready for about 4 weeks So i'll be pit-crew for a friend / video footage.

Just enjoy your drifting on the track, and if you make our next track day at calder bring a helmet becuse passenger rides are back on

Are you talking track days or drift at calder??? passengers!!!!

[Beer Baron]

merlin, i have to say it as it's been bugging me for a while but in your avatar pic it looks like you are approaching a right hand bend and are suffering some chronic understeer and have just locked the rears. not saying that's what's happening, but that's how it looks in the pic.

[GTRgeoff]

I'm talking the WRX club sprint round. We race with them as it would be prohibitive to run our own, plus they are pretty good guys.

I'm seeking approval from the better half to take the GTR out as it's a pretty safe track, and the 25t is awaiting a new RB26 heart transplant after the RB25DETT lunched the front turbo dropping compression on the front 3 cylinders to 25 psi.

[someonestolecc]

Geez. It's all somantics. It's a motorsport because it has a judging criteria.

There's nothing wrong with kids saying drift/grip in itself. Let's face it kdis are sponges so whatever they hear they'll say and the material is Japanese. In Japan they use names for stuff we'd consider a strange choice- that's because culturally and linguistically you can't really translate Japanese literally. Hence it's called drift/grip.

As for drift be a bogan thing - it's not in Japan, it's just that in Australia everyone has to have a pidgeon hole.. it's like when guys wear tight leather pants they must be gay because it's a 'statement'. In Europe guys wear tight leather pants and they're not gay, they get girls because it isn't a gay thing. Same as in Japan you can drift on some parts ofthe streets because it's culturally/socially acceptable, and the people aren't hardcore types. They don't shout at police. They aren't making a statement like it is in Australia.

At the end of the day it's just another fad for the posers, there will always be that component, like the fully sick s15's we see dropped to the deck with 20" chromies because that's what you do to sport cars (sif). I for one will try to get out there to a track and do it because hay I reckon it'll be fun. If I get to a circuit track day too that'll also be great - I just hope I don't disturb your motorsport elitism and you can gimme a few pointers

[Roy]

Elitism??? Read my first post again. Im more hoping it remains accessible to everyone...if im coming accross as some sort of elitist...sh1t that was never the intention?!?!?!?!

As for advice, best advice i can offer is dont listen to a word i say.

[Duncan]

Well I think its a shame this became a "drift isnt a motorsport" thread that is a discussion for another day....(we all know it is drag racing that isn't really a motorsport anyway...no corners )

"Grip" driving though, that is a symptom of people who don't have any idea of the range of circuit motorsport options available to them, and thats a real shame because they are missing a heap of fun.

Kel and Neil went along to the NSW CAMS club forum representing SAU and there was plenty of push back from the "traditional" motorsport clubs like Improved Production Racing Association.

Basically their point of veiw is that unless you have a dedicated race car and are racing it regularly that you dont deserve a part of motorsport in Australia.

Which makes me all the happier that clubs like SAU can help bridge the gap between enthusiastic people who talk about grip driving (but would have *no* idea where to start), and clubs that have been running supersprints and the like for ages. I personally reckon its great every single time a new club member comes to a track day and gives it a go....and I don't know many people who have gone to a track day and don't want to go to another one