Crd Dyno Tuning Of My R32 Gt-r.... My 0.02c!

[Blitz]

Tommyk: I was also under the impression that the Garretts you used were a tad laggy, I could be mistaken

[lwells]

TommyK is running the Garrett 707160-5s. The 707160-10 is basically the HKS GT-RS, the 707160-7 basically the GT-SS, and the 707160-5 sits in between (one might think of it as roughly equating to the HKS2530 I guess).

[Tommyk]

Guys

this is not negative feedback. I think that Jim mustve tuned my car with something else in mind. The car was meant to be streetable. With full boost at 5000 rpm, I decided that it was time to get it tuned by another workshop, just for curioisities sake, to see if there would be a difference at the end of the day. My turbos (which are comparable to the 2530's should not be as laggy as they currently are on my car.

Lucien - the boost controller WAS playing up, but regardless, it still takes close to 5000rpm to reach wastegate actuator pressure (0.9 bar). Jerry (wrxhoon) had a drive of my car and tended to agree. The car was blowing a fair bit of black smoke, so the tune is definitely out by somewhat.

I will give feedback on both CRD's tune and BEL's tune. My posts and opinions are based purely on my car and its setup at the present point in time.

I think its always good to get a second opinion, even if it is going to cost me under couple of hundred $$$

[Blitz]

Tommy, Jim is reading the thread so im sure he can comment further.

Have you spoken to CRD about this?

[Tommyk]

I would also like to see what he has to say (but i probably already know)

Adjustable cam gears would probably be #1

And my dodgy boost controller be #2

I honestly dont think that adjustable gears would improve spool by *THAT* much.

[williamsf1]

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck

[BU5TER]

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All things being fair though shouldn't he get those things then give CRD another chance as I'm sure the 2 tunes will be compared after he has them and bel have tuned it

I had a good look at Morgs tune from BEL at Sundays dyno day and the afr didn't look that healthy at all, I'll ask Morgs to post it up

[Blitz]

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck

I couldnt agree more Ben

[Tommyk]

Guys

I have poncams !!

My boost controller makes absolutely no difference until after the wastegate actuator pressure of 0.9 bar. Now I have a blitz DSBC spec R. It spools quicker in the lower gears, but 4th gear is comparable to the original controller. So ultimately, the gear is the same.

FYI i am running the following gear:

Poncams 260/9.15 ex/in

larger injectors

gt2560R garretts

nismo AFMs

exhaust + front pipes + hiflow cat

power fc

dsbc spec r

think thats about it

[Mik]

Guys

I have poncams !!

My boost controller makes absolutely no difference until after the wastegate actuator pressure of 0.9 bar. Now I have a blitz DSBC spec R. It spools quicker in the lower gears, but 4th gear is comparable to the original controller. So ultimately, the gear is the same.

FYI i am running the following gear:

Poncams 260/9.15 ex/in

larger injectors

gt2560R garretts

nismo AFMs

exhaust + front pipes + hiflow cat

power fc

dsbc spec r

think thats about it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrxhoon's old car had what are supposed to be the plain bearing equivalent of the 2560s. If I remember right, it made 1.2 bar at about 4300RPM under load.

That car had stock head, stock cams, stock valve timing, stock dumps and a 3inch exhaust.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Mik

[Marko R1]

Well I can tell you that gt2560R garretts are definitely laggy & not the same as the hks items from what I have been informed...

I assumed that you were running hks turbos.

This is where your setup differs.

Marko

[blk180]

BU5TER morgs made a change to the cars exhaust before the dyno which is why i belive it leaned out but on the Bell dyno runs the car only seemed to be pushed to 6800rpm when the limiter is at 8000rpm im not sure why this is and maybe you can get him to post both the dyno day graph and his tune graph for others to look at

Marko R1 when is yours gona get tuned

Edited September 28, 2005 by blk180

[Mik]

Well I can tell you that gt2560R garretts are definitely laggy & not the same as the hks items from what I have been informed...

I assumed that you were running hks turbos.

This is where your setup differs.

Marko

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 2560s should be far less laggy than the GTRSs though!!

[williamsf1]

TommyK

yes like I said previously I am sure if given the right equipment Jim would have given you the results you are after.... you can only work with what you have on the day... simple or as harsh as that sounds...

yes my turbos are HKS, and maybe that is just the reason I get a good spool time for the extra $$$ spent? the old saying.... "you get what you pay for...."

And Yes Morgs did make an exhaust change, and I have seen the AFRs I believe the exhaust when tuned on the dyno down south was rather restrictive, and that now with that restriction removed the engine revs free-er.... from memory it was tuned to about 6800 as power started to drop off from there... maybe that is the major change...

basically the tune was fine with the previous exhaust, and like anything, making a change as significant as that will free up some airflow....

I am confident he will have it touched up soon enough and be making a casual 500RWHP

[ferni]

Sorry to go a bit off topic, where did you guys get your GT-SS turbo kits from? nengun/greenline? What did they cost you inc customs/gst?

[williamsf1]

I would also like to see what he has to say (but i probably already know)

Adjustable cam gears would probably be #1

And my dodgy boost controller be #2

I honestly dont think that adjustable gears would improve spool by *THAT* much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well I will try and put it into figures for you timing and cam timing gave me these changes below before and after....

you make up your mind if cam timing and engine timing is worth while...

remember this is just a number, but the difference in that number is the point I am trying to make....

nearly 70AWKW on a dynolog dyno....

to put it into perspective, I know Mik's car made 280AWKW on the dynolog in the GONG and DARTs dyno log is within 1 AWKW of that....

BEL are great guys!!! Ben Eric and the Brians did wonders for me, and others I know, but there workshop is still waiting for a dyno (has been on order for ages) and this is the limiting factor...

CRD have the ability to play with GTRs for days at a time, and have been doing it since I was a baby

I haven't got a bad word to say about either, and my opinion doesnt have a bias either way.... just the facts are Jim got more power.... game over....

[williamsf1]

ferni.... nengun did a great deal, $3300 landed...

I had DART fit them, and fitted the trust extended dumps at the same time....

having my time over? I would also get the stainless extractors too!

[lwells]

you can only work with what you have on the day... simple or as harsh as that sounds...

yes my turbos are HKS, and maybe that is just the reason I get a good spool time for the extra $$$ spent? the old saying.... "you get what you pay for...."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offence, but that sounds quite arrogant: anyone who blindly subscribed to a 'you get what you pay for' philosophy is, in my not so humble opinion, foolish. If the part performs better then it justifies a higher price otherwise your just buying hype and marketing.

For starters, the 707160-5 is a larger turbo than the GT-SS's, so it will always be slower to spool. However, given its smaller than the GT-RS, it seems odd that its spooling later than the GT-RS marko has all things being equal. From what pete has said -- who is running the same turbos with some similar modifications -- the spool should be earlier.

you make up your mind if cam timing and engine timing is worth while...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TommyK didn't suggest that cam timing would make no difference to power, he said he doubted it would improve his late-spool issue signifiantly.

I think the inference is that perhaps CRD tuned for peak power rather than average power or vice versa. I don' think -- and TommyK has said its not -- meant to be a criticsm of CRD, but possibly a misunderstanding of his objectives with the car. Either way its all academic, and with any luck TommyK will let us know how things went at BEL.

Edit: Trying to make more sense

[BU5TER]

one thing that really interests me is that with the CRD dyno graphs how they make the the AFR axis so zoomed out like each major block is 2.5 which means its only has to move one small block being 5 small blocks to one major block to move .5 and it would also make there afr lines look 2.5 times straighter then other dyno graphs that only jump 1 per major block and .2 per small block

I'd near bet $$$ that if you had back to back runs on a dyno with it set up both ways you'd be very surprised at the difference

with that in mind williamsf1 can you post up the AFR from the CRD tune on the DART dyno please

[BU5TER]

Not trying to say its a bad thing but from the dyno graph posted in the 1st post it looks to me like it goes from 11.5 at the start to 12.5 at the end but because its zoomed out so much its very hard to see