Crd Dyno Tuning Of My R32 Gt-r.... My 0.02c!

[williamsf1]

Dear Captain Obvious....

If you care to look at the 2 dyno sheets above all your questions are answered... isn't it obvious????

yes I make more power earlier

yes I make more torque and longer

yes I make more total power

yes I have a longer rev range

yes the engine freely revs to the limiter

I have spent a lot of money, time, and effort to get these results with each part matched together regardless of cost (obviously without wasting money, buying from suppliers and workshops that did the job at a better price for the same result)

I strongly beleive that the HKS turbo in equal spec will always make more power earlier and total power will be higher...

I'm happy to be proven wrong....

So how is your stock GT-R going

[williamsf1]

one thing that really interests me is that with the CRD dyno graphs how they make the the AFR axis so zoomed out like each major block is 2.5 which means its only has to move one small block being 5 small blocks to one major block to move .5 and it would also make there afr lines look 2.5 times straighter then other dyno graphs that only jump 1 per major block and .2 per small block

I'd near bet $$$ that if you had back to back runs on a dyno with it set up both ways you'd be very surprised at the difference

with that in mind williamsf1 can you post up the AFR from the CRD tune on the DART dyno please

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey mate....

Im not sure what you are trying to say? I would say that the CRD dyno sheet is in what I would call "expanded scale" with a larger printed gap between 10 and 12.5 than most other systems I have seen....

unfortunately the ink was running out in the yellow so it is hard to see the graph paper lines in the printout, but if you look closely you will see that it sits on the scale line of 12.0 AFR and bubles up and down a little here and there....

if you have an example of an larger scale AFR that would be cool to see...

Im in Adelaide now, and will be getting a check on my AFRs as I have a twin exhaust going on the car 2moro...

[Beer Baron]

i have one handy (it belongs to Marcus aka Ronin_09):

as you can see it goes up 1 per large cube (or .2 per small cube) yours goes up 2.5 per large cube and .5 per small cube.

I had noticed this before as it made it hard to read the AFR accurately, but hadn't given it much thought. It may not be much of an issue whilst tuning as i assume they just read the AFR off whatever handheld meter they use.

[BU5TER]

It would make stuff all difference to tuning but is a nice little trick to make your AFR like look very very straight or not show how far into the 12's it gets

As I'm not a tuner I'm not one to say its to lean maybe this is how the power is made? and as the fuel is better in this day and age low 12's might be the new high 11's of old

[williamsf1]

Ok folks...

well this topic is starting to sound like the AFR one I started, and less about cam timing ....

I have just got off the phone with Jim @ CRD and we had a chat about all things AFR and knock

basically there is a storm in a teacup here, and a whollllllle lot of extra things that need to be covered to get the true picture...

suffice to say I am happy with the way my car has been tuned, and have faith in the principals and experience implemented to get it to this point....

like the saying goes "oils aint oils"

well AFRs from one sensor to another will differ also

there is also some inhouse experience that he passed on, but I will save that for another day....

Thanks Jim, and I look forward seeing you on a flight sometime

[williamsf1]

It would make stuff all difference to tuning but is a nice little trick to make your AFR like look very very straight or not show how far into the 12's it gets

As I'm not a tuner I'm not one to say its to lean maybe this is how the power is made? and as the fuel is better in this day and age low 12's might be the new high 11's of old

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe you make a very valid point....

high 11's would have been the norm say 5 -7 yrs ago when the best fuel we could get was 95 RON and a high sulphur content also....

now with low sulphur 98 RON from the likes of BP 12.0 - 12.2 is seen as the norm...

[lwells]

OK, I wasn't going to respond since -- like so many other threads on here -- things seem to have to degenerate into a personal slanging match. I don't quite understand why your so defensive given everyone is impressed and has congratulated you on your results. You seem to want to defend CRD to the death based on your, obviously positive, experience. My opinion, for what its worth, is that CRD probably did the best tune they could in line with what they believed the owner wanted, but I am willing to wait an see what BEL can do before assuming that other people setups must be wrong. If CRD feel the need to defend their work, let them: Jim seems to be monitoring this thread.

By the way, I looked at your dyno sheets but thanks for presuming otherwise.

yes I make more power earlier

Yes, you do although its somewhat hard to quantify exactly given the second sheet doesn't list RPM and the power scale is slightly different. I'm was not saying that I necessarily agree with TommyK -- then again, cam timing seems to differ between engines and I don't know his car/setup from a bar of soap -- but I was pointing out that he was talking about his spool issue rather than power figures, which I think are quite different issues: would you not agree?

I have spent a lot of money, time, and effort to get these results with each part matched together regardless of cost (obviously without wasting money, buying from suppliers and workshops that did the job at a better price for the same result)

So you keep saying, and I think almost everyone -- my self included -- has congratulated you on your results.

I strongly beleive that the HKS turbo in equal spec will always make more power earlier and total power will be higher...

Well there is only one way to find out, and so far no one has put them side-by-side. Again, however, my point was that the turbos aren't of equal spec so saying 'mine spool earlier because they are HKS' isn't relevant given one will obviously spool slower because of its specs.

So how is your stock GT-R going

That's relevant how? Oh, I forgot, its all a dick swinging contest. Silly me, here I was thinking that this was a good place to discuss issues like adults. Terribly sorry. Clearly only those with fantastic-wonderful-best-ever-most-reasearched setups can comment on these boards.

[Mik]

Ahh...so the green TO4z-ified BNR32 is Morgs'...

Apparently our 2 cars are the most powerful cars that have ever been on Jason's dyno.

[Beer Baron]

Ok folks...

well this topic is starting to sound like the AFR one I started, and less about cam timing ....

I have just got off the phone with Jim @ CRD and we had a chat about all things AFR and knock

basically there is a storm in a teacup here, and a whollllllle lot of extra things that need to be covered to get the true picture...

suffice to say I am happy with the way my car has been tuned, and have faith in the principals and experience implemented to get it to this point....

like the saying goes "oils aint oils"

well AFRs from one sensor to another will differ also

there is also some inhouse experience that he passed on, but I will save that for another day....

Thanks Jim, and I look forward seeing you on a flight sometime

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

c'mon ben, don't hold back the knowledge. share the wealth i say.

[williamsf1]

Ahhh lwells

if you knew me I was only having a piss take, and I don't take life/GTR/work/girls/bludging all that seriously...

no I wasn't defending CRD in fact if you knew me personally I would go to the other extreme and state that I would always defend BEL as I am personally in debt to the hard work they have done over the months...

instead of theorizing and talking about things on here, I just picked up the phone and rang Jim.... he covered all the bases, and answered all my questions that had been raised here from yourself and others.

oh and the speeds and rpm on both the DART dyno sheets are the same and the same gear mode etc etc

and yeah that was just a gentle dig about your stocker no harm...

[williamsf1]

c'mon ben, don't hold back the knowledge. share the wealth i say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

all I can say is that go and speak to Jim personally, he will lay all the info on the table, and you can make your own mind up

now having talked to Jim, I can safely go to someone like tillbrooks here in Adelaide and get a power run once the twin 63mm exhaust is done, and I will be able to check the AFRs with a measure of accuracy armed with the knowledge of what I have to do to get a true reading....

[Merli]

Everytime I've had one of my cars tuned by Jim @ CRD, it has been smoother, AND made more power than previous tune by a different tuner.

I'm not saying that the other tuners were sub-par. I was perfectly happy with them. But somehow Jim has always managed to improve the tune by quite a tangible amount.

I'm interested in hearing why Jim thinks that Tommyk's Garretts spool up so much later than HKS equivalents though? Could it be as simple as "HKS turbos are better"?

I'm a BIG believer in HKS turbos after the INCREDIBLE response and power I've gotten out of an HKS GT3040 on an RB25 and HKS GT-SS's on an RB26. But I've always had the nagging thought at the back of my mind whether I could have had the same results with Garrett turbos?

I wonder if Tommyk is willing to bolt on a pair of GT2530s (the HKS equivalent of his Garretts if I've read properly) and see what the difference in results would be?

[Marko R1]

i find this quite assuming :lol:

This just illustrates how passionate we are all about our gtr's & i'm 1 for this :lol:

Marko

[Marko R1]

Merli,

Your suggestion of changing turbo's as a test bed would be an expensive task in labour - unless you bend over (in the engine bay that is)

Everytime I've had one of my cars tuned by Jim @ CRD, it has been smoother, AND made more power than previous tune by a different tuner.

I'm not saying that the other tuners were sub-par. I was perfectly happy with them. But somehow Jim has always managed to improve the tune by quite a tangible amount.

I'm interested in hearing why Jim thinks that Tommyk's Garretts spool up so much later than HKS equivalents though? Could it be as simple as "HKS turbos are better"?

I'm a BIG believer in HKS turbos after the INCREDIBLE response and power I've gotten out of an HKS GT3040 on an RB25 and HKS GT-SS's on an RB26. But I've always had the nagging thought at the back of my mind whether I could have had the same results with Garrett turbos?

I wonder if Tommyk is willing to bolt on a pair of GT2530s (the HKS equivalent of his Garretts if I've read properly) and see what the difference in results would be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Merli]

Merli,

Your suggestion of changing turbo's as a test bed would be an expensive task in labour - unless you bend over (in the engine bay that is) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what it would cost, and hence the reason why no-one (me included) has done it to prove the point as yet.

[williamsf1]

come on Marko....

when is your car going for a tune????

Im dying to get to PI with you blitz and snowman....

[Blitz]

I dont know that you will catch Marko and I heading to PI to play roundy roundy with you but you never know your luck Ben.

Course we require tuning first.......

I will throw another dyno result into the mix shortly, purely for informational purposes once my car is finished, and yes, CRD will be tuning it (for various reasons)

[williamsf1]

come on! roundy roundy is soooo much fun!!! where is ROY when I need him

[Tommyk]

I have my results

for those interested, please PM me. I do not wish to start a shitfight on the forum

Cheers

[Mik]

I have my results

for those interested, please PM me. I do not wish to start a shitfight on the forum

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on...you know you want too!!