Supra Vs Skyline

[Roy]

Thats interesting...that BMI vid with the Mines vs HKS car doesnt hint at their beign that much of a difference, when you consider the HKS car was on road tyres???

[knore]

Sydney kid, you are really strange indeed... some of your comments actually fried my mind.

"The Supra problem is quite simple, it is 2wd and yet weighs the same as a 4wd GTR. So they will never be comparable, the GTR wins easily on traction."

Now, that comment is pretty unusual to start with, now, the RZ-S TT Supra is 1490kg, has a wider wheel base, and comes with 9.5" width tyres.

Sure, the GTR will win with traction at 280ps, but how about at 800ps? is 4WD an advantage, or massive disadvantage?, I mean, the worlds fastest street tyre

supra is 7.90 at 180mph, and people have no problems on the track, the Japanese sure didnt in the GT series. Look at GTR-700 for example, he has spent enough

money on that car to buy a few houses, and he still cant break a 7, heck, he cant even drive his own car, and claims the RB26 to be the best production engine

ever, even though his doesnt even resemble the item that was produced in the factory.

"If you compare the Supra with a GTST the GTST wins because they are 250 kgs lighter."

That comment is just mentally retarded, the lightest GTST is the R32 which is 1320kg, not 1240kg, and also makes no power at all, has no torque, and has very

little room for power upgrades, of course, without spending 8 times the value of the car.

"The other notable issue is not the inside of a 2JZ, it's all the CRAP stuff on the outside. For example it's a doddle to get 600 bhp out of a standard RB26 exhaust manifold, no chance with a standard 2JZ exhaust manifold. It's a piece of cake to get 500 bhp out of a standard GTR intercooler. try that with a standard Supra intercooler."

Now, that is interesting indeed, a T4 turbo manifold for the 2JZ-GTE starts at $600, that isnt a very big upgade, and, also to note, there are several peopl ethat have broken into the 10 second bracket on the standard twin turbo setup in the states, and they have also produced 550 genuine hp. The GTR cooler is quite a gem indeed, but, the stock Supra one will hold 400hp without any issue, you do realise it is 135mm deep? and also, what does an upgade cooler cost these days... $1000 fitted, tops, unless of course, you are you and get ripped off.

"GTR's regulary run low 9's on road radials with a standard inlet manifold/plenum, like hell that's gunna happen with the standard Supra rubbish. Shall I get into diff's? Fancy a turbo comparison?"

GTR's dont regulary run in the low 9 second bracket period, they also dont use the standard inlet manifold, and they also dont use the standard 'plenum', or pistons, or rods, or turbos, or injectors, or rarely intercooler, or rear diff, or clutch, or standard driveshaft, supra's however, do regulary run in the 9 second bracket with the standard gearbox, standard rear end, standard diff, oh hang on, im speaking shit? www.wotm.com woops, looks like I wasnt.

And, as I mentioned above, 7.90 at 180mph, street tyres, no Skyline has even run 7.90 yet, not even HKS's 1100kg shell that doesnt even resemble a GTR.

"You gotta look at the big picture, not just the up and down bits. If you spend the same amount of money on a GTR it will always be faster than a Supra with the same amount of money spent on it, who cares where the money is spent."

I did look at the big picture, a 1995 Supra with bigger brakes than the GTR costs $5000 less than a 1995 model R33 GTR, now, you do realise that 1000hp on an internally standard engine isnt uncommon for the 2JZ-GTE right?, I mean, you have been to www.to4r.com havent you ? I am sure you have, as you have seen the bigger picture, as I did, now, $10,000 later, I have 447rwkw, and I even had enough money for an ORC Twin plate carbon fibre clutch.

How much does an RB26 cost that will hold 1000hp?, well, I would say *AT* least $10,000, now, with $15,000 on top of the Supra, just because people for some reason want the GTR more ($5000 more infact), you dont have much left to go before you go "oh hang on, I have almost spent the amount of the car, just to make reliable, big horsepower."

Lacking education isnt your fault, it is everybody elses fault, it isnt your fault you didnt know about www.to4r.com, www.sound-performance.com, www.horsepowerfreaks.com, www.wotm.com, www.sp-power.com, hey, it isnt even your fault you missed out on the strongest, and one of the best looking cars to ever come out of japan, it isnt even your fault you dont own one, hey, maybe you just dont care about price vs performance.

I mean, back to the topic of that comparison, if you go to http://www.webamuse.co.jp/jza80_list.html and also remember how he said "this power upgrade only costs 500,000 yen (under $6000), it makes you feel kinda sick in the stomach when you go to the http://www.mines-wave.com/ and notice that a built engine on it's own is 1,890,000 yen ($21,511 AUD).

I mean, that setup there costs 4,611,130 yen = $52,527 and only makes 600ps, that isnt even the machine they showed in their clip, I wonder how much it would cost to replicate the one they actually used?

Dont get me wrong, I like Skylines, I have had 3 now, but, the Supra is just a better performance machine from the factory, hey, 1520rwhp by Marko is better than any of the GTR's to date, sure, it is 3.4 litres, but who's counting.

Cheers.

Cmon sydneykid! Im waiting for a reply

I know its not like you to 'retaliate' so to speak, but i think it would make for some good reading and information to hear someone who knows what they are talking about really get into the tech side of supras vs gtr

To be honest i like both cars, ide choose a 33-34 GTR over any supra model, but that said, if i was not intent on track work and wanted a low drag coefficient high hp for low money freeway and dyno car ide have a supra

Its quite proven and known that the GTR is king on the track, and in the end, that is a REAL measure of a car..

[elGTR]

Cmon sydneykid! Im waiting for a reply

I know its not like you to 'retaliate' so to speak, but i think it would make for some good reading and information to hear someone who knows what they are talking about really get into the tech side of supras vs gtr

To be honest i like both cars, ide choose a 33-34 GTR over any supra model, but that said, if i was not intent on track work and wanted a low drag coefficient high hp for low money freeway and dyno car ide have a supra

Its quite proven and known that the GTR is king on the track, and in the end, that is a REAL measure of a car..

Your right Knore you got a good point there, they are very different cars, in my opinion i like a car that is fast on the street (on the staight, drag) not for track, therefore the GTR does not provide what the supra does at all, as the gtr lacks torque, and top end acceleration. Having owned an r33 gtr for the past 2 years and now owner of a 95tt supra i can judge my self and see the differences between the two cars.

Cheers.

[Roy]

Cmon sydneykid! Im waiting for a reply

I know its not like you to 'retaliate' so to speak, but i think it would make for some good reading and information to hear someone who knows what they are talking about really get into the tech side of supras vs gtr

To be honest i like both cars, ide choose a 33-34 GTR over any supra model, but that said, if i was not intent on track work and wanted a low drag coefficient high hp for low money freeway and dyno car ide have a supra

Its quite proven and known that the GTR is king on the track, and in the end, that is a REAL measure of a car..

Why, whats the point. Neither are right, as there is no right answer. Both cars have their attributes, both have their short falls...whats the point of running around and around in circles pointing out truths that serve one side of the equation.

The only instance where i say there is a clear winner is in the wet or inclement weather...other then that...meh.

[m&m]

My previous post about the Mines v HKS GTR was from memory.I just watched the DVD again.

Hot Version-Tuner Battle Royale...Tsukuba

Mines........................................HKS

2.6 litre.....................................2.8 litre

1550 kg.....................................1630 kg

600 ps.......................................700 ps

HKS 2530's................................HKS T04Z

RE55s 265/35/18........................A048 265/35/18

57.996 sec.................................59.176 sec

These were the figures on the video.

On the original post,I would gladly have a Supra and a GTR in my garage,but if I could only have one...GTR.

[Duncan]

well there is 1 of the missing seconds. Mines are on Re55s and HKS are wasting their time on A048Rs. Once you add that second back they are pretty damn close

[Roy]

well there is 1 of the missing seconds. Mines are on Re55s and HKS are wasting their time on A048Rs. Once you add that second back they are pretty damn close

Go watch the vid again and look at what gear the Mines car is in down the straight, they bloody well stole the diff ratios out of an RX2 to get the car reving and accelerating the way it does. Its so obvious as the thing is a bloody ball of confusion to drive with the gearing beign so short, i have seen several vids of the thing missing gears as drivers just cant keep pace with all thats going on...makes for awesome acceleration for sure...id be curious to know what gear ratios the thing is actually running. The engine revs dont seem to be too different from what i imagine the std Getrag to have, so it must be in the diffs.

Give the HKS car the same tyres, it would probably do the same time...it would be interesting if you gave the HKS car the same diffs would it be quicker again????????

No doubt the car is an awesoem package, but i think there is a bit of an optical illusion going on because of the gearing....and the 2530s get way too much credit for the cars performance...again great turbos, but bolting 2530s onto your RB26 wont get you anything liek this sort of performance, or whatever they call the ultimate response machine

[m&m]

Speaking to the Yokahama dealers at Rowville,they inform me that the Jap spec A048's are much softer than Oz spec,thats why 8 of the 9 cars in that shootout are on them,as Mines have run before.

Ben at RacePace thinks the Mines car has gears out of a R32 GTS 4 ,4.34 compared to 4.11 I think he said.

All this "trickery" is available to all,but they still cant catch it.

[Roy]

Speaking to the Yokahama dealers at Rowville,they inform me that the Jap spec A048's are much softer than Oz spec,thats why 8 of the 9 cars in that shootout are on them,as Mines have run before.

Ben at RacePace thinks the Mines car has gears out of a R32 GTS 4 ,4.34 compared to 4.11 I think he said.

All this "trickery" is available to all,but they still cant catch it.

I understand NISMO did release a number of diffs for the R32 GTR that were a shorter ratio, i think they were used on Grp As or something...i saw some for sale a few years ago...they were big dollars though :confused:

Yeh available to all, i have no idea and talking out my a55, but the thing is about to grab 6th gear whilst the HS car is still well and truly in 4th gear, i wonder what difference there would be in top speed, and at a place liek Suzuka would the shorter diff ratios hurt it????

[Duncan]

They would just change to the appropriate dif ratio for sure.

m&m they do come in soft medium and hard compounds, but like for like the re55s are still a better tyre

[fatz]

gtr drivers changing to gts4 diff ratios

crazy you wouldnt here about that kind of cheating

i cant belive people have the nerve to do that to a race gtr

i would be shocked to find out that any racer in australia had done so

lol

lol

lol

lololololololololollol

it hurts

the pain

the pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duncan]

nasty. diffs are free bitch.

In fact I wish diffs were free as well as free I would love to be able to afford to run the most appropriate diff for every track. Bloody 5th gear is useless everywehre but EC

[mr 32]

now can some one confirm that mines r34 is for sale ... i heard of a gtr blowfly that its actually here in Aus and is for sale for around the 150 mark ?

yep there is. it was built at the japboyz shop, its a replica with a z-tune bonnet. the engine has some extra work too so it can rev a bit more from what sasha told me. all stainless pippes have been replaced with Titanium pipes. it looked like the biggest sleeper before when it had no decals and stock gtr rims.

[phunky_monkey]

Why, whats the point. Neither are right, as there is no right answer. Both cars have their attributes, both have their short falls...whats the point of running around and around in circles pointing out truths that serve one side of the equation.

The only instance where i say there is a clear winner is in the wet or inclement weather...other then that...meh.

word

I've driven both, and am a big, big fan of both. They each have their own attributes, and are both great cars in their own right.

There's a lot of people on here who I highly doubt would have driven either, let alone both, so most opinions are completely unfounded. And to those that have driven both, then it's to each their own.

[fatz]

i dont care if they are free your all filthy cheats

[Roy]

i dont care if they are free your all filthy cheats

Whats an RB30 in an R31 then , it sonky because its a 31 and they are cool...otherwise "CHEAT!"

[Sydneykid]

I held back on responding because, like Roy, I thought it was a waist of time. But heck, I am bored and rattling someone’s cage is good for the soul occasionally, as long as it is done with a smile of course

Now, that comment is pretty unusual to start with, now, the RZ-S TT Supra is 1490kg,

And an R32GTR N1 is 1515 kgs, that’s less than 2% difference. you really do need to check the homologation papers.

comes with 9.5" width tyres

And an R33 GTR comes with 9” wheels on all 4 corners

the GTR will win with traction at 280ps, but how about at 800ps?

The same 4 tyres will ALWAYS have more traction than the same 2 tyres, regardless of power.

I mean, the worlds fastest street tyre supra is 7.90 at 180mph

On a prepared drag strip specifically designed for 2wd drag cars. On the street it would be lucky to do a 12, a 9 sec GTR will do 9’s on the street just as well as it will on the track. It doesn’t need a prepared surface to run within 10% of its potential.

people have no problems on the track, the Japanese sure didnt in the GT series.

They won NOTHING until the GTR’s stopped racing.

Look at GTR-700 for example, he has spent enough money on that car to buy a few houses, and he still cant break a 7, heck, he cant even drive his own car, and claims the RB26 to be the best production engine ever, even though his doesnt even resemble the item that was produced in the factory.

So you are saying if Mario had spent the same money on a Supra he would be driving it? Oh my you need to open your eyes. He doesn’t drive it because he has business issues that prevent him competing. And I suppose the worlds fastest Supra has a stock standard engine?

That comment is just mentally retarded, the lightest GTST is the R32 which is 1320kg, not 1240kg.

I won’t stoop to insults, that’s childish. Everyone (except you) knows that the 1989/90 model R32GTST manual (no sunroof) weighs 1265 kgs with a full tank. Later models and those with more options weight more.

a T4 turbo manifold for the 2JZ-GTE starts at $600

If my power target is under 625bhp that’s $600 I don’t have to spend on a GTR. That’s $600 I can spend on something else to make it faster, not make up for a deficiency in its design.

The GTR cooler is quite a gem indeed, but, the stock Supra one will hold 400hp without any issue, you do realise it is 135mm deep?

Wow, I only managed a race team that ran Supras for 3 years, I didn’t know that. All I know is the bustards just got slower and slower as the races went on, the heat soak killed them. The rear tyres lasted 3 laps at best. Not to mention the heat from the turbos cooking the brake and clutch fluid. At least GTR’s have the turbos on the LHS and the tyres last a 20 minute race.

what does an upgade cooler cost these days... $1000 fitted

If my power target is under 300 rwkw that’s $1000 I don’t have to spend on a GTR. That’s $1000 I can spend on something else to make it faster, not make up for a deficiency in its design.

.

You obviously had a problem understanding what I wrote about the GTR’s on radials that run regular 9’s. I suggest you go back and read it again. Supras are popular drag cars in the US, because they were sold there, because the turbo/turbos are on the passengers side there, because there are thousands of them running around as road cars, bits are cheap and common.

a 1995 Supra with bigger brakes than the GTR costs $5000 less than a 1995 model R33 GTR

That’s the law of supply and demand at work. The fact is no one wants a Supra, so their price is depressed. Everyone wants a GTR, so their price is heightened. You actually lose the argument right here.

Lacking education isnt your fault

As I said above, I spent years managing a race team with Supras, I know which car I would much rather have. Which car is going to win (or have a very good chance of winning) in Production or Improved Production racing. Has 16 years of circuit racing history, homologation and development. The GTR is not a legend for no reason, there is plenty of true substance.

Don’t get me wrong, a Supra is an OK car and a 2JZ is a pretty good engine internally, but there are plenty of better 2wd cars around. The real issue is a GTR is the 4wd Godzilla and it always will be.

Cheers

Edited March 6, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Tangles]

By gods; seeing that footage I realized how much I lust for a Rb26 R34.

Wow, stuff the Autech RS260 GTR Stagea I ws thinking about, we've got a Stagea Rb25det already, but geez how nice would a R34 GTR be??

[nismo33]

this thread is funny,. yet very interesting.

i may have not driven a GTR,. but i owned 2 GTST's... and now having to own a 2jzgte,.. there are no comparison in regards to RWD action. -- and that's stock --.

i love skylines,.. i believe though that Supra and GTR are both in diferent legue of their own... that ends there.

I was meant to upgrade to an R33 GTR,.. but then i thought,.. i dont think i'd want another Skyline... weather a GTR or an R34 GTT... its just another skyline invading the road... although they're nice cars,. but i just couldn't bear having another Skyline again.

so instead,. picked up a supra and resprayed it midnight puple... now thats what i called a car with a touch of a gtr.

GTR's on the road still wow's me.-- perhaps i'll have one.. one of these days.

[fatz]

r31 nuber one

with a gtr motor