If Defected - Please Read

[ZOR]

so basically from what everones saying that a larger front mount than usual is

illegal?

or does it have to be covered by mesh or just has to be engineered?

[666DAN]

Darren hasn't updated but he has been informed by qld transport that most of his "defects" are actually quite legal, when he gets it in writing he'll be forwarding it on to Slacks Creek Police so they can educate the overly zealous Mr Little what actually constitutes a defective modification, I suggest anyone who gets defected they do the same.

[Ska]

Problem is that the QLD Police make rulings under one set of laws and QLD transport rule under a totally spereat set. Both sets of legislation are vastly different.

I found this out when researching legalities of underbody neons, Accoring to the legistlation QLD Police rule under, anything that is not provided on the car from the factory or as a factory extra is illegal, whereas the QLD Transport legistaltion states:

Underbody lighting is permitted, provided the lights are fitted in accordance with the conditions listed in this information sheet

AIS INFORMATION SHEET No. 21

Alternative lights

Additional lights fitted to motor vehicles and, in particular, alternative lighting on dressed up vehicles with underbody lighting, such as neon lights and ultra violet lights, are acceptable, subject to certain conditions.

(TO(RUM-VSS)) allows lights not mentioned in the standards to be fitted in addition to the required lights, whereas the former Traffic Regulation 1962 required specific approval, which was not often granted. Lights that flash or are white, red, yellow or blue are mentioned in the standards. However, pink lights, for example are not mentioned and could, theoretically, be fitted.

The use of blue lights are reserved for police vehicles in Queensland but ambulances and fire engines in other states may use blue lights.

As such, additional underbody lighting such as neon lights and ultra violet lights are acceptable provided the light omitted is not blue, yellow, red or white. Of the last two, red lights must not be seen from the front and white must not be seen from the rear. Other colours are acceptable as long as they do not flash or dazzle another driver.

Other additional lighting requirements are covered by the regulations and which is summarised in the brochure "All About Modifications to Motor Vehicles". This brochure may be sighted on the Queensland Transport website at www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/driver.nsf/index/vehiclemods

Additional mandatory lights, e.g. an extra pair of direction indicator

lights, are also permitted. The Australian Design Rules set mandatory

position, width and height limits for a primary set of lights fitted to a

vehicle. In the case of light and heavy omnibuses (MD and ME categories),

all commercial vehicles (N category) and medium and heavy trailers (TD and TC categories), additional direction indicator, hazard warning, stop, parking and rear position lights may be fitted to satisfy specific operational requirements.

These operational requirements could include the need to better project manoeuvring intentions in congested traffic such as for buses frequently stopping to pick up and set down passengers, the need to have additional lights to retain signalling capability in case of primary light breakages, and where operating environment results in low mounted lights becoming covered in dirt or dust.

The maximum height limits for particular lights, which includes stop lights, fitted to the above categories of vehicles do not apply when provided as additional lights.

BIG problem is that the QLD police do not govern by the same set of legistlation that QLD Transport does, fcuked up eh.

[Ska]

more mics info from QLD Transport:

Generally, the fitting and use of vehicle accessories (air pod) do not require specific approval from Queensland Transport. As such, Queensland Transport does not approve or disapprove the use of vehicle accessories.

However, Queensland Transport requires that vehicles continue to comply with the standards set from when the vehicle is first supplied to the market. Accordingly, the use of any aftermarket devices must not result in deterioration of vehicle compliance with the applicable Australian Design Rules.

The only regulation relating to air filters is contained in Queensland Transport's Approved Inspection Station (AIS) Code Of Practice which states that, "air cleaners must be fitted".

It is the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle to ensure that emmisions levels are maintained.

It may be necessary to supply proof that the vehicle maintains the original emmision levels.

If further clarification is required please phone our Vehicle Modification's Unit on 3253 4851

As for the enquiry regarding general modiifications a modification brochure "All about modifications to motor vehicles" is available at most CSC's and can be accessed through our web site.

I have pasted a copy of the Engineering Instructions relating to blow off valves.

|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|

|Engineering Instructions|Vehicle Accesories | |

|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|

Date Of 17/04/2 Date Of 17/04/20 No VA.06.04.0 Replaces/A

Issue: 002 Effect: 02 : 2 mends:

It has come to the notice of the Vehicle Safety and Industry Reform Section that a common modification to vehicles equipped with a turbo-charger installation is the fitting of an intercooler and a blow off valve.

Forced induction methods such as turbo-charging or super-charging have the potential to substantially increase the power and performance of a motor vehicle.

Apart from the engine itself, turbo-charging or super-charging affects four main vehicle systems. These are exhaust emission controls, vehicle noise suppression systems, braking system performance and driveline components.

Option 3 of Section LA of the Code of Practice (Light Motor Vehicles) permits the fitting of turbo-charged and super-charged engines to light motor vehicles in accordance with Schedule B of Section LA. A part of this approval requires that a “Safety Upgrade” of the vehicle is implemented in order to provide for the increase in vehicle performance.

Braking system performance and driveline components are addressed in the upgrade requirements. Additionally, the modified vehicle must continue to comply with the Australian Design Rules relating to emission controls and noise levels to which it was originally constructed.

Whilst it is recognised that a large number of the vehicles referred to in this instruction are factory fitted with a turbo-charger or super-charger installation, considerable modifications are carried out to install the intercooler, blow off valve and associated pipe work. The installation of

these components is acceptable, if fitted in accordance with good

engineering practice, i.e. it should not significantly affect the noise and emission levels of the vehicle.

Installation of blow off valves/intercoolers are regarded as accessories and do not require approval under Section LA of the Code of Practice (Light

Motor Vehicles). However, a number of vehicle owners are installing

additional “whistles” to the blow off valves (or alternative blow off valves with whistles). This procedure has attracted Queensland Police

Service attention. A number of infringement notices have been issued to

vehicle owners for, it is understood, excessive vehicle noise. Whilst the blow off valve in an unmodified state is of little concern, valves fitted with a “whistle” attachment can be quite loud.

The Transport Operations (Road Use Management – Vehicle Standards and

Safety) Regulation 1999 requires that a person must not drive a motor vehicle on a road if the vehicle’s silencing device has been modified so as to reduce, or be likely to reduce, the effectiveness of the device. As such, the silencing devices fitted to these vehicles have not been modified and the noise is not attributed to the exhaust system.

The Transport Operations (Road Use Management-Road Rules) Regulation 1999 raises issues in relation to devices fitted to motor vehicles and excessive noise emitted from motor vehicles, and is as follows:

Making unnecessary noise or smoke

S 291 (1) A person must not:

(a) start a vehicle, or drive a vehicle, in a way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke; or

(B) wilfully start a vehicle, or drive a vehicle, in a way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke.

Example of subsection (1)(a):

Driving a vehicle in a way that causes noise or smoke because of:

(a) disrepair of the vehicle; or

(B) the way the vehicle is loaded; or

© the condition, construction or adjustment of the vehicle’s engine or other equipment.

Example of subsection (1)(B):

Driving a vehicle in a way that causes noise or smoke by wilfully and unnecessarily causing the wheels of the vehicle to lose traction and spin on the road surface.

S 291 (2) A person must not drive a vehicle to which a noisy instrument

is attached or on which a noisy instrument is used.

S 291 (3) The driver of a vehicle or a passenger in or on the vehicle must

not:

(a) ring a bell or sound a horn, except a horn or similar warning device under section 224; or

(B) play or use a noisy instrument.

It would seem appropriate that the Road Rules legislation is relevant to vehicles equipped with these devices and which are modified to allow excessive noise to be emitted. The Queensland Police Service should be utilizing the Road Rules to enforce the issue, and, the owner would need to remove the device to avoid continually being issued with infringement notices.

Inspectors Action:

Transport Inspectors are advised not to issue Defect Notices solely for the reason of a vehicle being fitted with an intercooler or a blow off valve.

Any enquiries relative to this matter may be referred to the Road Use Business Management Group on telephone number (07) 3253 4851 or (07) 3253

4778. Inspectors should telephone (07) 3253 4778 or 4308 for additional

information.

[ZOR]

very helpfull thank you

[The Dan]

Now that should put some minds at ease. Very informative Cyrus.

This means that the ATMO blow off valve is LEGAL provided it does not make "excessive noise" and or cause the emissions to increase or blow smoke. ????? Not 100% sure but that's how I understood it.

And it also means that you cannot be booked for just "having" a blow off valve, they must prove that it is, indeed, excessively noisy.

It is also my understanding from reading the above post that you cannot be booked for your tyres "chirping" if it was unintentional. Is this correct?

[shanef]

Now that should put some minds at ease. Very informative Cyrus.

This means that the ATMO blow off valve is LEGAL provided it does not make "excessive noise" and or cause the emissions to increase or blow smoke.  ????? Not 100% sure but that's how I understood it.

And it also means that you cannot be booked for just "having" a blow off valve, they must prove that it is, indeed, excessively noisy.

yes but that still leaves the door open for some disgretion to teh determination of what really is, Excessive Noise.

But then saying that, if they do not hear your BOV, they can look over the car but they cannot make u rev it or do anything of the like.

I am also under the understanding that if they were to search your car, and this including under your bonnet, they will be required to have a search warrant.

Anyone that can give me hard fact on this fell free to add, but that is my understanding of the law, civil and statutory.

Shane

[Ska]

still means you can be given a ticket from the QLD police, but not from QLD transport.

The legislation that the police rule under states basically that anything that is not stock or a factory extra, is potentially a defect, depending on the officer.

[666DAN]

BIG problem is that the QLD police do not govern by the same set of legistlation that QLD Transport does

That may be the case, then why do the police refer you to QLD transport for anything *they* think is illegal..because all QLD transport will say is "nah it's fine, goodbye" and it's just cost you $85 for the pleasure (which I personally would be claiming back from them)

They should be referring you to a police engineer or someone who actually knows the legislation they apparently follow.

[Ska]

Why is the question, it is stupid!

For example, when I asked QLD Transport for speed camera legalities I got:

Hi Cyrus,

Thanks for your email.

Unfortunately you have directed yuor question to the wrong department. This is a question for Queensland Police as Queensland Transport just act as a paying agent on behalf of Queensland Police we are unsure of the policies and procedures involved with radars.

If you need more information please contact me by e-mail or phone Queensland Transport on 132380.

So the QLD police hand out tickets for breaking their laws, and send you to QLD transport to have your car checked to see if it complies with a TOTALLY SEPERATE set of legistlation!

IT'S SPASTIC! Mainly because of the huge difference between them. What is usually deemed illegal by the police laws is fine by the QLD Transport laws.

"I'm sorry officer, I didnt know a feed bag for my horse was an illegal intake modification........"

[Ska]

They should be referring you to a police engineer or someone who actually knows the legislation they apparently follow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on, either that or they should amalgamate the legistlation so that it is clear and consistent on what is legal and what is not and only rule on one set of laws.

Which is why it is so confusing for us as drivers to put the police on the spot and say "You cant do that!" or "You need a warrant to search my car." and the like.

I think they purposly have made it that way to make it near on impossible to properly work out what rights we actually have as private citezens why pulled over by the police.

On a side note, QLD transport are very accomodating when it comes to getting information from them.

QLD police still have not been able to provide me with ANY information on the 1967 Public Roads Act.

[predator]

all cops should be arrested for enforcing invalid laws methinks..

there should be more accountability with officers just referring people to QLD transport without correct legal cause..

then again it goes both ways, when they know everything that is illegal and there are more defined rules, larger fines could be levied for breaches.. and could follow cancellation of repeat defectors, etc.

In VIC and NSW I think now, if you get EPA'ed or defected too many times your license itself is suspended, and big fines are levied.

[Ska]

Victoria, the place to be defected

[Col-GTSX]

Ska feed bags are a very highlly performance enhancing modification.

It keeps the horse alive.....

Atom BOV's are the biggest defect item....

I argued that buses and trucks have bov's on their air bag's and air brakes and they are heaps louder then a turbo cars bov and the cop left us alone.... He saw the point and walked away....

[Leigh]

a hole was cut in the engine bay for the intercooler piping... if i get defected for this how do i fix it? how do i get aorund it?

[darren32]

Thanks ska for posting that. I work really long hard hours (shut up dan) and i just haven't got around to putting that same post on.

Leigh, to answer your question, we put the car over the pits in a month so we'll let you know. we got defected for just that thing.

Edited October 20, 2005 by darren32

[Bobjones]

EVERYTHING IS FACTORY FITTED OFFICER...

MY HOME FACTORY A$$HOLE

[Bov]

Just a comment regarding atmo BOV's on page one.

There was referrence to "crankcase emissions" and that they are not allowed to be released to atmosphere but need to go to a catch tank.

Well the BOV does not release crankcase emissions. Crankcase emissions only exist after the air (and importantly fuel) so air fuel mixture, enter the engine in the throttle bodies.

The BOV releases compressed air and thats all as it exists in the system well before any fuel and hence "crankcase emission" exists.

Go through that one with your friendly cop and he will have a flea in his ear - wont know what you are talking about unless he is an enthusiast.

Cheers

[The Dan]

In reply to needing a warrant this is the process:

For a police officer to search ANY part of your vehicle or anyone in it, they must have you pulled over for a valid reason.

It clearly states in the police powers book that if they have pulled you over for a VALID reason ie. breath test, then they also have the right to search your vehicle or anyone and anything in your vehicle.

This does mean, however, that if they have just pulled you over for the hell of it and ask you to pop your bonnet, YOU MUST ASK THEM FOR WHAT REASON THEY HAVE PULLED YOU OVER. If they say to just pop your bonnet then they have no right. They must have pulled you over for another reason like a breath test.

There is only one exception to this rule and that is if the police officer is an inspector (there's only like two in queensland).

So next time you get pulled over and you haven't been doing anything stupid, make sure the first question you ask is "Why did you pull me over you c**t?

I have a copy of the police powers booklet somewhere so I will attach it

PolicePowResA00.pdf

Edited October 20, 2005 by 3LIT3 FORS3

[danh]

in nsw cops get around this limitation of powers by breath testing you every time they stop you. especially when they know they are going to go over your car or pop your bonnet for defects.

once they do the breath test they are clear to open/search what and where they like and you cant say shiat