Advice On Track And Drift Set-up...

[J-Boy]

Hi...just thinking of starting a thread asking those who have experience on track driving or setting up cars fer the track, as well as the drifters on the track, what all of you think and can advice fer r33 gts-t owners who wish to set up their cars fer the occasional track driving and drifting. From stuff like suspension and handling, to cooling systems needed, performance, brakes, reliability. What do u all think are the necessary modifications, step by step, in terms of importance?

Cheers~

[Sydneykid]

I'll kick it off, for setting a good lap time there is NOTHING more important than handling, achieving the highest possible corner speed. That's good tyres and a suspension set up that uses those tyres.

Whatever my budget is for suspension on a car, I spend at least 50% of it on shocks and the other 50% on everything else. Good shocks are the most important part for achieving high levels of traction from the tyres. As a general rule I stay away from Jap shocks, they have unsophisticated valving and too small a piston area to be efffective.

The best bang for buck suspension upgrade by far is stabiliser bars, they help keep the maximum tyre contact onto the track surface. For the same reason, next comes alignment products, caster adjusters, camber adjusters and sub frame alignment. Last on the list of important things are springs, they are there simply to hold the car up and compress rapidly and easily to absorb bumps, ripple strip jumping and, in general, allow the tyre to follow the road surface at all times. These days I can run almost the same soft spring rate at any circuit we go to, we use the shock absorbers and the bars to adjust the handling.

Whatever you are doing with your car, the HICAS has got to go, it is not your friend when pressing on.

If you want a good suspension kit that works well on the road and handles the track work equally as well, have a look at the Group Buy on at the moment, an R33GTST fitted with basically this kit is leading the NSW Speed Event championship. This is the Group Buy for R33GTST's, there are others for other Skyline models.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=85467

The adjustable stabiliser bars are the go as they will allow you to adjust the handling balance. Softer rear bar settings for grip and harder for drift. You will also need to have camber and toe settings for each discipline, I can easily provide those for you.

That will do for a start, this is going to be a huge thread as you have a very broad subject.

cheers :

[garage-13]

mechanical diff is no.1

otherwise locked/shimmed.

(essential)

stick to jap suspension parts.

coilovers

caster arms

and a bucket seat/harness..

these are the first mods you want to be adding to you're car.

[predator]

You should not have any problems taking a stock GTS-T skyline out on the track..

Just make sure the oil is clean, brakes are in good condition, your radiator is flushed, and filled with decent coolant. All else is optional and is really about improving times. I'm serious.

Your car in factory form should not overheat, blow anything up, or throw you off the track. HICAS doesn't help, but it won't kill you either.

It can depends on the type of 'track work' you are doing however... how many laps per session and the like. That can make a bit difference to the overall heat in the engine, which is the main thing to be careful of.

[GTRgeoff]

Alex, without exception my experience with Jap suspension in various cars I have driven is they are too hard for all but the very smoothest tracks. Don't get into an argument you can't win. One of us here is a vastly experienced suspension engineer. My experience isn't exhaustive and there may be some I have missed, but not many.

Brakes and decent pads/fluid are essential. More important than anything else they must work reliably when hot and you need to learn to use them.

Skylines already have 'coilovers' (ie the coil is over the shock) but if you buy a setup already matched in correct ride height and damping to spring rate then you needn't muck about with confusing adjustments(ie the group buy SK mentioned). There is such a thing as too low and too hard. The swaybars are enough adjustment for novices. I have always found that once I find a good setup I just leave it alone and concentrate on the driving skills.

A locked diff induces too much understeer on corner entry so at most a 1.5 for circuit but a 1 way is sufficient. Circuit events continue if it is wet so a locked diff is just asking for a close encounter with the scenery. If you have a decent suspension setup for traction and don't overpower the car then the stock diff will last fine. Of course drift will kill the stocker and is pretty brutal on all driveline elements so keep that in mind.

Oil can be an issue so a cooler is preferential but you can survive without. Change the oil before an event, add an extra litre and watch temps and as Pred says you should be fine.

Try not to be a world beater day 1. It's a learned skill and has to be developed.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

I think alex was speaking strictly from a drift point of view.

locked diff would suck for circuit -- as you said because of the poor turn-in, but are perfectly acceptable for drift. -- as is high spring rates from jap suspension (hey the japanese invented drift, so i think they know what they're talking about)

It is hard to build a car for Drift and Circuit, because in circuit you are going for grip, and in drift traction is your enemy...

Anyway, suspension and handling have been covered, so these are my suggestions for the other areas you mentioned

Cooling - aftermarket radiator, oil cooler, aftermarket Intercooler

Brakes - upgrade brake pads & brake fluid

Performance - turbo back exhaust, aftermarket turbo, intake mods, computer, injectors, afm

reliability - fuel pump, cooling mods, change all fluids and oils

other - aftermarket seat / harness, steering wheel, shift knob, button clutch

Edited October 9, 2005 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[GTRgeoff]

Actually Jim Clark invented drift and completely revolutionised the racing world with his understanding of the traction circle. I also contend that it has been prevalent in Rally for many years longer than the Japanese sport with such manouevres as the Scandanavian Flick.

The stock radiator is fine as demonstrated again at Calder yesterday by Team Wang.

[AzzurrA]

i shall reply after bathurst has finished, with my rather limited experience (but a couple of things i have noticed)

[AzzurrA]

Okay...

i have a setup very similar to the whiteline one that Sydneykid is selling, and i find it is quite good.... though it is probably getting to the borderline of being a bit soft on the track, with high-grip tyres (i.e. semi-slicks or slicks)... (the car tends to fall over a bit)... however, the beauty of bilsteins is you can get them revalved to suit your purpose... so if it is getting to that point, where you are finding they're a little too soft, work out what you want it valved at and get it changed

as for reliability etc....

as predator was saying, you can take a stock car out to the track and have fun, without having to worry about too many things going bang, as long as it is maintained well, and its not out there for too long...

I have done 1 trackday at QR, and all i have in terms of go fast mods is a pod filter and a turbo back exhaust, yet i was lapping right up there with some of the faster cars... why? because my focus has been on suspension and handling first (though the power is coming soon ) The faster cars were eating me on the straights, but through the corners and under brakes, i was making that ground back rather quickly...

I ran with a stock radiator that had the coolant changed just before i bought it around a year ago (got it from a caryard, it had fresh coolant in it when i bought it) though after the trackday it was looking a bit dirty (i'm assuming some gunk was dislodged by the high revs etc) however i didn't see more than around 91 - 92 degree water temps, after 7 laps of QR...

My biggest concern was that in the later laps of the session, i was getting a bit of detonation... i am assuming this is because the standard intercooler was getting a bit heat soaked, so i'm looking at upgrading that before i head back out again.

So basically, you should be able to run for short sessions with little more than a stock car with new spark plugs, engine oil, make sure the radiator isn't clogged with gunk, make sure the brake fluid is fresh (i.e. isn't a few years old) make sure your gearbox and diff fluid are topped up etc.... and you should have a fun time! (assuming your car is in good condition and maintained properly, i.e. your water pump/oil pump aren't failing, timing belt is fine, blah blah blah)

[Sydneykid]

Okay...

i have a setup very similar to the whiteline one that Sydneykid is selling, and i find it is quite good.... though it is probably getting to the borderline of being a bit soft on the track, with high-grip tyres (i.e. semi-slicks or slicks)... (the car tends to fall over a bit)... however, the beauty of bilsteins is you can get them revalved to suit your purpose... so if it is getting to that point, where you are finding they're a little too soft, work out what you want it valved at and get it changed

You shouldn't have too much roll at the Paperclip, what stabiliser bars settings are you using?

Cheers

Edited October 9, 2005 by Sydneykid

[Roy]

Dont be to quick to run out and start modifying. A std GTST with regualr servicing is a good thing at the track...and will teach you plenty about driving.

I stepped up to the modification plate far too soon. I thought 1:18s around Wakefield was all the std R32 could punch out. So Whiteline Works suspension and front mount later i was about 2/10s quicker:(

Basically took me a lot longer to learn how to drive the thing. If it wasnt turning or stopping etc, i convinced myself it was a car problem, reality was i doubt any cars would have stopped or turned the way i was hoping my car would:)

Not that it really matters, had and continue to have great fun doing it but liek everything in life it is nice to get bet better at things with practice, thats why i no longer bother with golf:)

Spending money only to go just as fast SUX. Going back to a track 3 or 4 times within 6 months with the identical car to pull 3 seconds out of your lap time feels pretty good:)

Basic breathing mods, pads and fluid, then upgraded shocks/springs/swaybars will give you a nice car to drive without busting the bank. Hell you want to go drifting then jsut stiffen up that rear swaybar and see how you go.

I dont agree with people running around claiming you need drift setups, or track setups etc etc. Having a hard look in the mirror unless you are prety switched on behind the wheel of a car then its 80% driver and 20% car. (my thoughts only) To get the last little bit out of your car it will require a lot more car, but unless you are in a competitive form of motorpsort and need that last little bit then you can make do with a lot less

[Sydneykid]

Whilst I agree with Roy on the suitablility of a standard Skyline to handle a track day pretty well, the proviso is that it is a well maintained standard Skyline. Plenty of the guys with track experience have already covered the maintenance items. Stuff like;

1. Change the fluid in the brakes, I see so many cars that have to stop early in the day because the fluid is old, has water comntamination and boils.

2. Check the pad depth, you will be stunned at how fast you can wear out a set of pads on the circuit. Again I see many cars limping home with pads down to the backing plates.

3. Radiator flush and refill with coolant, the number of boilers is amazing, especially now when it is getting on for the hot season. The circuit race seasons stops in November for a very good reason.

4. Tyre pressures, the old chestnut, I can always catch out half the field at a drive day with low tyre pressures. Check them.

5. Remove the junk, every road car accumulates stuff inside the cabin and in the boot. They make great missiles in a spin or under heavy braking.

6. Check the fuid levels, power steering, engine oil, gearbox oil, diff oil ......what you might get away with on the road will show up on the track very quickly and can spoil your day at the very least and cost you a bomb if the bad stuff happens.

Remember to finish first, first you have to finish. Pitty some of the guys didn't apply that lesson yesterday.

cheers

Edited October 10, 2005 by Sydneykid

[Liz]

Dont be to quick to run out and start modifying. A std GTST with regualr servicing is a good thing at the track...and will teach you plenty about driving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree... although I'm not an experianced driver...I'm concerntrating on mastering my driving on the track before I go ahead and start making some improvements to the car.

That way, I not only know how to drive the thing, but I've also got enough experiance and knowledge to make an educated decision on what I'll do to my car rather than solely rely on other peoples recommendations, as reletively few people do actually know what they are talking about.

And when seeking advice from people such as SydneyKid and GTRGeoff (love your work boys! lol) you know exactly what they are trying to achieve and can get the best out of their advice.

[J-Boy]

Think that this thread has been good so far..with all the various advice coming in...think its a good guide fer people who wanna bring down their skyline to the track and making sure they enjoy their time out there...

So...the stock radiator, as long as the coolant is fresh, nobody here ever had much problems with water temp?

[predator]

nope.. nor any of the other liners out on the track days I have been to.. I think only once did I have to see another car towed home, and it wasn't a skyline :lol: So you should be ok.

[Duncan]

For what its worth my stock gtst did a 1.10 around wakefield on dunlop d01js. Only mods were mechanical diff, king low springs, 10psi boost. Nothing wrong with a stock skyline

But if I was doing it all again, I would take Sydneykid's kit. Add an oil cooler and an exhaust. Thats all. Anything else is just stressing the car out, they are quick enough to do some great times as they are.

And suspension is a million times more useful than more power.

[Roy]

Go away Duncan...as it stands im still 3 seconds slower then your near stocka:(

[yogi000]

very valuable info in here for a track novice like myself.

[Duncan]

Youve got to get back out there Troy, you have a sub 1.10 car now

[NickR33]

this may be a silly question but does anyone run with the heater on during track days to cool the motor (esp. those with stock radiators)?