Rear Wings And Track Work

[INASNT]

I did a search and couldnt see much discussion in regard to rear wings helping rear downforce on the track.

I currently have just the drift rear wing on my r33 which came with the 5 when i got it 5 years ago, and after hitting the track a few times this year I am thinking of adding a carbon 3D type adjustable wing on the back also to see if i can get me some more rear end traction coming out of the corners as at the moment my corner exit is sideways or if I go for a higher gear the car bogs down for a few seonds and then comes back onto boost later in the corner. Both methods sees me loose alot of time during corner exits.

This is with a GT30 and running around 255rwkw for the track with 18" 265 street rubber. I intend to get some semi comp tyres 17's on the car very soon.

Anyone with much experience with wings?

[Snowman]

Denham - from what I understand from the basic's of the dynamics of the wings you won't really get any difference in rear end traction coming out of corners - especially slower corners. What you will get is rear in traction in the faster sweepers say at places like Phillip Island and the kinks at Sandown.

But speaking to Steven on Saturday at Calder he was saying that the big wing he's now stuck on his 550 has given him noticable more stability in the high speed braking area's. I can't tell you how that should help but that was his feedback.

[INASNT]

Andrew do you make any adjustments to your wing for different tracks?

I was talking to chris about this awhile back and was looking at a similair wing to what he has but he hasent used it on him car for the last few track days.

[Snowman]

Mate - I've made no adjustments to my wing. Its in the position it was when I purchased the car. LOL

Chris was supposed to experiment with the wing a fortnight ago at Phillip Island but that intake pipe was cracked and he spent all day looking for the cause of the oil all over his car rather than getting to experiment with the wing.

We are due to go back to Phillip Island in December so the plan is to go and experiemnt with the wing then.

[INASNT]

I dont know if i would be putting a roll cage in a ferrari if i had one!!

Is there another PIAC day at PI in December?

[MSPEC]

If you had a Ferrari you probably wouldn't care, try stepping on the gas a second or so later, that helps me keep it straight

[Sydneykid]

I did a search and couldnt see much discussion in regard to rear wings helping rear downforce on the track.

I currently have just the drift rear wing on my r33 which came with the 5 when i got it 5 years ago, and after hitting the track a few times this year I am thinking of adding a carbon 3D type adjustable wing on the back also to see if i can get me some more rear end traction coming out of the corners as at the moment my corner exit is sideways or if I go for a higher gear the car bogs down for a few seonds and then comes back onto boost later in the corner. Both methods sees me loose alot of time during corner exits.

This is with a GT30 and running around 255rwkw for the track with 18" 265 street rubber. I intend to get some semi comp tyres 17's on the car very soon.

Anyone with much experience with wings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sound to me like you need some traction improvements, wings are a high speed tuning device, pretty useless at low speeds. Shoud we get into discussing suspension and alignment setting?

cheers

[INASNT]

Sound to me like you need some traction improvements, wings are a high speed tuning device, pretty useless at low speeds.  Shoud we get into discussing suspension and alignment setting?

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whiteline suspension setup is already in there, but still running street tyres.

[Sydneykid]

Whiteline suspension setup is already in there, but still running street tyres.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes, sticky tyres or throttle control lessons. A V8Supercar is only 400'ish rwkw and they have 10" wide slicks, and throttle control is a well learned skill even in them. In the R32GTST (420+ rwkw) we have to wind off the steering lock on corner exit to match the power application. If we hang onto steering lock, it will step out and fry the rear tyres.

Some sugestions for fine tuning the suspension set up;

More front bar

Less rear bar

More rear toe in

More rear neg camber (check the tyre temperatures to be sure)

More rear squat via the subframe adjustment.

Let me know what you have everyhting set at now, if you want some more detaileed suggestions.

Cheers

[Ant97GTR]

Denham,

All replies are spot on. In order for a wing to produce downforce it needs airflow over it...ie at speed. Generally when you exit a corner it is done at a much lower speed and therefore any wing will have very little airflow moving over it. Wings and other downforce aids basically make the car feel much more stable in the braking zone and will allow you to brake slightly later....

[INASNT]

Ah yes, sticky tyres or throttle control lessons.  A V8Supercar is only 400'ish rwkw and they have 10" wide slicks, and throttle control is a well learned skill even in them.  In the R32GTST (420+ rwkw) we have to wind off the steering lock on corner exit to match the power application.  If we hang onto steering lock, it will step out and fry the rear tyres.

Some sugestions for fine tuning the suspension set up;

More front bar

Less rear bar

More rear toe in

More rear neg camber (check the tyre temperatures to be sure)

More rear squat via the subframe adjustment.

Let me know what you have everyhting set at now, if you want some more detaileed suggestions.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What turbo/turbo's is the r32 gts-t running and what rpm is its powerband. I mainly find it hard to keep mine in the powerband coming out of corners (4000rpm) in a higher gear, as if i use say 2nd for a corner exit I have to fiddle with the throttle quite alot to stop it frying the rear tyres.

I have the exact alignment setting at home from traction tyres so will upload them tomorrow. The front and back swaybars are set to medium and subframe alignment set to max anti squat. I only got 7 laps at Calder on the weekend so couldnt really get a feel for the new setup properly as I was playing with the new 324mm DBA rotors and bedding in the Ferodo 2500 pads that were installed the day before.

[Roy]

My buck fitty... he needs...

More REAR bar

More rear squat via the subframe adjustment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on what you were saying at Calder the thing wasnt really turning that well and it was a bit under steery. If you stiffen up the rear car it will be a bit pointier which i think suits the way you need to drive reasonably powerful rwd cars.

Change the orientation of the cradle bushes...then when driving the thing make sure your not turning in too early and getting on the power too early so you are going from push understeer to oversteer as the thing ramps onto boost.

If the thing turns well you wont need to trail brake and with a slightly later apex then normal you can be sure that you are on the loud pedal and on corner exit you dont have too much lock wound on encouraging oversteer. Mind you with semis you will find that all of a sudden you can get a lot more power to the ground.

Another thing which i find with the little RB20 is that try and use a gear on corner exit that has you on boost, rather then ramping onto boost. It is so much easier to get the throttle control thing right when its not ramping on and off boost. So typically i try to make sure my slow corner exit rpm is over 4,600rpm...that way when i crack the throttle it is instantly on boost and i can balance the power down without having to floor it and get out of the pedal as it ramps onto boost.

Mind you that is for 90 degree corners like Calder/Sandown. At a track with sweepers like Winton and PI i tend to go for the higher gear and make sure that i carry as much corner speed as possible. Careful throttle application is needed otherwise the sudden boost ramping or surge of power is always going to help throw the thing into oversteer.

Basically im rambling

[Sydneykid]

What turbo/turbo's is the r32 gts-t running and what rpm is its powerband. I mainly find it hard to keep mine in the powerband coming out of corners (4000rpm) in a higher gear, as if i use say 2nd for a corner exit I have to fiddle with the throttle quite alot to stop it frying the rear tyres.

I have the exact alignment setting at home from traction tyres so will upload them tomorrow. The front and back swaybars are set to medium and subframe alignment set to max anti squat. I only got 7 laps at Calder on the weekend so couldnt really get a feel for the new setup properly as I was playing with the new 324mm DBA rotors and bedding in the Ferodo 2500 pads that were installed the day before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Turbo is a Innovative T66, makes a smidge under 1 bar at 4,000 rpm in 2nd and revs to 8,000 rpm, but I only use 7,500 rpm. It has a standard RB25DET gearbox (which is back from service today, so I gotta go and pick it up). That gives a 2,000 rpm drop on up change 2nd to 3rd. So, working backwards, I change up at 7,500 rpm, it drops to 5,500 rpm. That gives me a good 1,500 rpm to either change up earlier (say at 6,000 rpm) or let the engine roll on though the corner.

None of this is an accident, I planned the engine configuation and tuned it to suite the gearbox ratios. If I had a close ratio gear box I could easily extract more power without worrying about the reduced power band because the gearbox would take care of that.

As Roy posted, it is all about planning the corner for either a higher gear with boost or not too many rpm in the lower gear. Occasionally you will find a corner that is right in the middle, then it is always better to go for the higher gear.

cheers

Edited October 11, 2005 by Sydneykid

[Duncan]

I reckon your first place to look is your line through the corner, try turning in a little later than you are now, so wait out nice and wide before you turn in. I think you will find that helps heaps reducing the power oversteer

[INASNT]

I was hoping to have a play at sandown in a few weeks but no-one else seems to be entering

[Ronin 09]

I was hoping to have a play at sandown in a few weeks but no-one else seems to be entering

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why don't you enter... do you need someone to hold your hand?? :lol:

[INASNT]

I still might...........................................................................

..........

if you come and hold my hand