Anti - 4wd/suv Discussion

[Josh]

ahaha you must be quite a sight driving that thing... and it must struggle a bit... hahaha

[ossie_21]

I can't believe this thread is still going hahaha :lol:

So we all agree most 4wd drivers are c**ts yeah???

[Samboha]

Got my Civic wrote off by some dumb bitch in a RAV 4 changing channels on her radio when she should have been FARKING WATCHING THE ROAD!!!!!!!!

You should see what a 4WD bumper can do to a hatchback that is super low.....nearly mashed my roof in....

[DanR33]

You should see what a 4WD bumper can do to a hatchback that is super low.....nearly mashed my roof in....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the sad thing is most 4WD owners think they need a bullbar also for the urban jungle. The bumper does enough damage. But lets strap a steel bad to the chassis aswell. Friggin idiots.

[DanR33]

ahaha you must be quite a sight driving that thing... and it must struggle a bit... hahaha

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah it goes hard man. 1.3L NA whips a 2.5L turbo line. hahaha. I fit in it alright and stuff - pretty roomy. I think perhaps if someone looks at it side on from the drivers side they may think i lowered it a bit.

But hey its just a shitbox to get me to work. Getting a new model maxima in the next 6 months. I know people here hate them and im not too fond on the FWD thing and the foot operated handbrake. But i love the shape and it feels like driving a bentley (not that ive driven one). And plus looking to the future. Want something to keep the misses safe if she starts popping out kids and i wouldnt piss on a 4WD ofcourse.

[Josh]

Fair enough dude - I wasn't really having a go at your car - just i'd prolly laugh if I saw the incredible hulk driving a tiny car hahaha

Oh and I know how hard the 1.3L NA's go dude - my mum has a suzuki swift and I make every c**t piss in that thing hahaha dishin out the chop left right and you better believe centre!

[DanR33]

Man bag my car out, I do! It sux! But there are benefits of having a car u dont give a shit about. Like for example when i walk past it with shopping bags *bang* whoops, who gives a shit.

[ossie_21]

Man bag my car out, I do! It sux! But there are benefits of having a car u dont give a shit about. Like for example when i walk past it with shopping bags *bang* whoops, who gives a shit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:lol: That was funny as f**k just now :lol:

[Josh]

I was watching a toyota hilux ad on tv last night, the new slogan kinda thingo for it is "Get in or get out of the way' .... Just doesn't seem right to me...

[DanR33]

That is just because the people who buy them like to bully other cars on the road. Like all 4WD owners.

Its just like a skyline ad saying "get in, go sideways really fast and pick up lots of chicks".

Or a charade ad saying "get in, thrash the crap out of it and dont wash it" - I'd buy a car with that slogan

[Josh]

I don't know about the pick up chicks part(I think that feature wasn't purchased with my car)... but the sideways part hell yeah

[Big Rizza]

Just skimmed over this thread, but I thought I would add my thoughts.

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I personally cannot see myself owning a vehicle any larger or more compromised on road than a Subaru Forester for city/suburban use. Even then, I would prefer to use a smaller, preferably performance orientated car. Smaller cars are cheaper to run, more environmentally friendly, and a small performance car will provide better active safety due to its better manouverability and braking.

I bought my R32 skyline because I feel safer driving that than I would in a 4WD or shopping trolley due to its far superior road holding and braking. Whilst it may not be as safe for me as a 4WD in an accident, I feel that I am less likely to be involved in an accident due to a) increased confidence behind the wheel (and driver confidence can be a BIG factor in accident evasion) and b ) the increased likelyhood of being able to avoid the accident.

As for any "you dont need a performance car" comments, the engine is standard because I do not feel I need more power for street use (that and lack of $$$ ). Therefore, it makes less power than, say, a Nissan Patrol (at 185kw) or a current model Ford Falcon (at 190kw). Hell, even a stock Hyundai Sonata (at 173kw) outpowers my "high performance vehicle."

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A lot of the problems with 4WDs can also be applied to trucks, busses, vans, people movers etc. The thing is, people buy those vehicles because they have no other choice. People don't buy people movers to be cool - they need to move people. People don't buy vans to be cool - they need to move cargo. People don't buy trucks to be cool - they need them to deliver food and produce to make MY life better. People dont buy buses to be cool - they buy them because they need to move 20, 40, 60 people at a time. But people DO buy off roaders to be cool - they don't take it off road.

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"A US hospital study has undermined the common American belief that "bigger is safer" when it comes to SUV's.

The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia has published a study in the journal Pediatrics saying that the increased chance of a giant SUV rolling over negates the benefit from being in such a large vehicle. The study looked at over 3,900 child injuries experienced in different types of vehicles."

Source: http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=101&id=1507

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From a study into driveway children fatalities:

"The vehicles tended to be large, the majority being large 4WD passenger vehicles, large utility vehicles, delivery vans or heavy trucks, although either a sedan or a station wagon was involved in one-fifth of the cases. The predominance of large vehicles in these accidents contrasts with the fact that sedans and station wagons account for about two out of every three pedestrian traffic deaths in Australia. This is unlikely to be attributable solely to the fact that a low-speed collision involving a heavy vehicle is more likely to result in a fatality than one involving a sedan. The accidents involving passenger vehicles predominantly entailed vehicles reversing in driveways. More than half of the passenger vehicles were large 4WDs, but the reason for this over-representation remains unclear. The relatively high sitting position of the driver in large 4WDs tends to counteract any reduction in the drivers field of view resulting from the high window sills in such vehicles, but that benefit is significantly compromised in some models by the fitment of a spare wheel high on the rear door."

Source: http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2002/D...deaths_sum.aspx

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"SUV rollover statistics reveal that SUV rollover is three times more likely than rollover in other passenger vehicles. Rollover is the leading cause of death on our nation's roadways because the injuries that are sustained in rollover accidents are typically much more severe than those suffered in planar accidents. Sixty one percent of SUV occupant fatalities occur in rollover crashes, according to government SUV rollover statistics. According to federal SUV rollover statistics, the Ford Explorer SUV is sixteen times as likely as the typical family car to kill another driver in a vehicle accident. "

Source: http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/suv/statistics.html

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Multipurpose offroading tyres and compromised onroad/offroad suspension design signifficantly increases stopping distances and reduces cornering grip.

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Anecdotal and industry evidence shows that only around 10 per cent of 4WDs ever get off a bitumen road - most clock up the kilometres in urban areas. Buyers should therefore consider carefully whether they really need the off-road capability of 4WDs, particularly when considering the larger vehicles.

Some 4WD owners buy their vehicles for the large seating capacity, which can be an advantage for large families, but people movers and small buses should also be considered, as they are cheaper to run. The large Australian-built family wagons with a third row of rearward facing seats in the load area for smaller children are a good option as the rear-facing placement is safer in a frontal crash.

Those simply after the greater stability and security of a 4WD should consider the increasing number of conventional passenger cars equipped with 'all-wheel drive'. These vehicles, such as the Subaru model range, some of the Audi and VW models and now the Holden Adventra, are essentially 4WD cars, with purchase and operating costs comparable to similar two-wheel-drive vehicles.

These vehicles offer safer travel on slippery surfaces such as wet gravel roads and will also get you through minor obstacles such as a patch of soft sand or shallow mud. However, they do lack the ground clearance and suspension articulation for rough bush tracks.

http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_thegoodthebadtheugly.asp

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NRMA is a partner in the Used Car Safety Ratings which analyses four Australian State Transport Departments' crash data, to correlate injuries received in crashes with the model of vehicle. This results in an occupant protection rating for second hand vehicles.

The small and medium 4WDs generally score below average to average, while the large 4WDs score average to better than average for occupant protection, similar to large and luxury cars. However, due to their weight and geometry, the large vehicles should score much better than this.

Source: http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_thegoodthebadtheugly.asp

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Safety for others

Occupent safety

The Used Car Safety Rating data also enables us to calculate how much particular vehicle models injure occupants of other vehicles, by analysing the outcomes of two-vehicle crashes. This analysis results in what is known as an Aggressivity Rating, and shows that the large 4WDs provide much worse protection for other drivers than average.

This demonstrates the issue of incompatibility between vehicles, which is of international concern. In collisions between large and small vehicles, there are several factors which tend to increase the risk of injury for the occupants of the smaller vehicle.

The first is that, due to the physics of collisions, the occupants of the smaller vehicle will suffer greater speed change than those in the larger vehicle, and therefore suffer greater forces on their bodies.

The second is that high vehicles tend to 'over-ride' smaller vehicles in collisions, which means the energy absorbing elements built into the smaller vehicle are ineffectual. In turn this means the intrusion into the occupant space is greater, increasing the chance of injuries.

A third is that larger vehicles are also often stiffer than smaller vehicles, which again increases intrusion and injuries for passengers in the smaller vehicle.

In the US, where sales of large vehicles now constitute 50 per cent of the market, the vehicle manufacturers have recently committed to voluntarily designing the fronts of their large vehicles so they engage with the structures of smaller vehicles, which will help address the incompatibility. NRMA hopes that local manufacturers and Australian importers will also adopt this constructive approach, which has occurred in the US without Government regulation.

Until vehicles are designed to be more compatible, NRMA believes one short term strategy is for vehicle buyers to ensure they purchase vehicles with front, side and head protection airbags. This will not only improve the protection for them from other vehicles impacting from the side, but also against side impacts with objects such as trees and poles, which commonly result in high levels of injury.

Pedestrian injury

Other research from the US shows that pedestrians suffer greater injuries when struck by 4WDs than by conventional vehicles, due to the geometric difference between the fronts of the vehicles.

Pedestrians hit by a car are 'scooped up' or 'run under' and land on the bonnet or windscreen, which are often relatively soft. Pedestrians hit by a 4WD are impacted by the essentially flat wall of the vehicle front, which causes more severe injuries.

Bullbars

The popularity of bullbars on 4WDs and utes only exacerbates the problem, as bullbars concentrate the force on pedestrians and change the dynamics of the impact. An NRMA survey in 1996 revealed a bullbar fitment rate of 60 per cent on 4WDs compared with two per cent on sedans.

Children in driveways

A recent Federal Government study found that large 4WDs were over-represented in fatal cases of young children being run over in reversing accidents in driveways. While the study attributed some of the problem to the rearward view being restricted by spare wheels mounted on the rear door, there were conventional passenger vehicles with equally restricted rear views that were not represented in the statistics to the same degree.

NRMA believes that the best countermeasure to these types of child fatalities is to always monitor the location of young children when vehicles are being moved on private property.

Source: http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_thegoodthebadtheugly.asp]http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_thegoodthebadtheugly.asp[/url]

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Sorry, that post ended up being pretty long, but I think my point got across :lol:

Edited January 13, 2006 by Big Rizza

[Josh]

Awesome man - well put together

[DanR33]

Big Rizza where have u been all my life?

WERD times infinity!

[Patto-]

You have WAAAAYYY too much time on your hands....

But it is pretty much spot on.