Acl Product Warning! Rb30/25 Hybrid Buildup

[the_tonkau]

And then she said..."now we can all get some sleep!" ha

Edited October 21, 2005 by the_tonkau

[SteveL]

You really need to get this analysed by someone independent, preferably without stripping it further 'yourself'. I would make the following observations:

- the wear shown in the picture extends ABOVE the max travel of the top ring in the bore (or that's the way it appears). That being the case, the piston/bore clearance measurement you give is meaningless since that was measured at the skirt (ie lower down the bore). To me it suggests abnormal loading of the piston. There also appears to be some evidence of poor/uneven ring seal.

- hardness tests (of what ??) prove nothing in terms of detonation.

- it would be rare indeed to find anything wrong with the piston material. You will need to show that the pistons were incorrectly/poorly manufactured (ie not 'fit' for purpose) or mis-described in some way by the manufacturer in effect misleading you/the engine builder in terms of your requirements.

Good Luck.

[the_tonkau]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Edited October 21, 2005 by the_tonkau

[pnblight]

7 thou clearance thats f**king hugh what is there recomend clearance on install out of interest

[courier33]

Are you sure the piston to bore clearance is 0.007" and within spec?? This sounds pretty high to me. 0.007 thou = 0.1778mm.

Recomended clearance for a RB30 is 0.015mm to 0.035mm (~0.001")

[SteveL]

- Engine builder pulled it down.

Not really independent, I'm afraid. There are specialists that do this sort of engine failure work, but getting it done is not cheap. I have helped people in the past but it's a bit of a minefield.

-These pistons are barrel shaped not tapered. Mahle tech department (distributer) also agreed with the engine builder that clearences are OK, yet still blamed over boosting

I'm sure that's the case, but an explanation needs to be found for how wear like that could occur - esp in only 2000k's or so.

They DID agree that this was not the case.

I'm hardly surprised....

The more we dig into this problem the more we find indicators of a manufacturing issue.

Someone has to do the work to prove this for you to have a chance.

[retrotec]

ACL race series pistons are not forged, hence why they only handle low boost.

I should know been selling ACL parts for years.

[browny]

First thing i'm gonna say is that I don't think this thread will last long.

Second thing, I don't think your approach to the problem does much other than aggrevate ACL, who probably just see you as another whinging customer who f ucked up when using their product. Rather than theorising that "it's ACL's fault because we couldn't have done anything wrong", why don't you actually determine the root cause of the problem?

Is it only one cylinder or all of them?

[the_tonkau]

wot the?

Edited October 21, 2005 by the_tonkau

[browny]

First thing I’m going to say is that I don't think this thread will last long.

-Poor attitude, why do we have forums? Look up what it means.

We're not allowed to pay out on businesses. Read the forum rules mate. The lawyers f ucked true freedom of speech.

Why don't you actually determine the root cause of the problem?

-We have, that’s why we are taking legal action against ACL who we are holding responsible.

Care to share?

So far you have only told us about the damage. You don't appear to have given any reason other than 'faulty pistons'. What particular aspect of the piston is responsible for the damage?

Edited October 12, 2005 by browny

[Scooby]

Guys;

come on, cool it a bit. we're being appraised of an issue that appears is piston related, that can't be bad in terms of sharing knowledge which is what these forums are designed to do. i am certainly interested in the outcome and the findings and i'm sure others are. let's just keep it objective.

tonkau; mate i can't post on behalf of SAU because I'm not a mod but would you consider editing your posts to remove any company names? i'd hate to see a 'situation' develop between a car manufacturer, an aftermarket parts supplier and a motorsport shop, particualry since one appears to be an employer. and we particularly don't want to get the SAU site involved in a litigation situation. i think we all acknowledge your frustration and that you're trying to do the right thing by other SAU members.

just my 2c guys, let's take a clinical approach to this and we can all win.

Kind Regards

Edited October 11, 2005 by Scooby

[fatz]

id be speaking to your machinest

he should have measured everything pistons bore ect before and after doing the work

[mad34]

it really sucks when people dont responsibilty for their product being faulty or work being shoddy i have been stung in the past too tankau. I hope you stick it to ACL if it is really their fault because that sort damage shouldn't occur at only 2000k's. All the best with your problem dont give up take it to the furthest extent someone has to.

[the_tonkau]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Edited October 24, 2005 by the_tonkau

[Scooby]

is there any literature at all that states the boost limit for the ACL piston or unsuitability for turbo apps ? if not, you've got em on that one I reckon. if warnings do exist they'll get you on it everytime, right or wrong, despite what we think the pistons should be able to do.

could there be another cause?

[pnblight]

I personally hav never seen a piston with that sort of clearance ARIAS have problems with 0.0045" and are normally run at less than recomend but if the acl have required 0.007" clearance that is what has caused all the problems.What were the ring gap like and did this engine breathe or what.

pete

Edited October 12, 2005 by pnblight

[R31Nismoid]

First thing I’m going to say is that I don't think this thread will last long.

-Poor attitude, why do we have forums? Look up what it means.

Why don't you actually determine the root cause of the problem?

-We have, that’s why we are taking legal action against ACL who we are holding responsible.

As stated, doesnt matter what forum means. You cant come here slandering a product.

You've said it yourself that your no expert.

I think a thread such as this should wait until the court does decide who is or is not wrong based on both parties presenting thier side. Not us seeing one side without the other

This is very similar to the Catco/Magic CAT thread where there was only one sided information. You cant slander a product/business here on SAU openly without proven fact.

Retrotec's post has pout me in a 50/50 about locking this... i shall keep my eye on it and have a think.

Cheers

[browny]

A quick look at ACL's web site suggests their standard range of "Race Series" pistons, which have been around for yonks, aren't forged. ACL never suggests they are. The warranty for these pistons specifically says they are not for forced induction applications.

ACL do have a newer range of "Race Series Hyperlite" forged pistons, which I think came out earlier this year (made by Mahale IIRC?). There is basically no literature on these. Since some of these pistons are specifically produced for turbo engines (BA turbo, Skylines etc), I cannot see how the standard "Race Series" warranty can apply.

So what Retrotec is saying seems correct, however I think it's not really relevant here because tonkau's problems seems to be with this newer series of "Hyperlite" forged pistons, which are a different beast altogether.

[the_tonkau]

qqqq

Edited October 21, 2005 by the_tonkau

[NickR33]

I have Arias at 0.0045" and I wouldn't go any more than that in a fit... would anyone with a motorsport background care to comment on a recommended clearance of 7thou... in my limited experience this would appear to be quite huge!