98 Ron Fuels Tested With Results

[Mik]

No. sorry to say Vortex 95 and 98 are not rich in Toluene.Toluene is a solvent . Different refineries use different processes to increase RON . I make the stuff at kurnell. Also the Companies have agreements in different states about supply. There is no Caltex refinery in Victoria. You will probably find that is a Shell product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All petrol has some amount of Toluene in it though. What do you mean by 'solvent'?

What are the aromatics in Vortex 98 then? What does Caltex use to raise the Ocatne to 98?

Shell optimax does not have its RON increased. It starts at more than 98 RON and is cut.

[kimbod]

Catalytic reforming units are used to increase the octane of HSR to bring it up to a RON of 95-102. Petrol from the bowser is usually a mix of different unit rundowns that are blended to and tested to be sold.Toluene is not added to increase RON. Toluene, Benzene, Propane, Butane, Xylene, Cyclohexanes, etc are all products of the Reaction in our Reactors. Heat is used to increase the reaction that gives a higher RON.Shell talks about density of Optimax. The density of our rundowns are usually quite a bit higher . This is one of the specs we run to.

HSR is what is distilled from crude oil. There is usually about 4-6 different types of crude running through a crude unit at any time. We use about 10 differing crudes. This is due to availability , and specs needed for summer or winter fuel , Diesel , jet fuel, heating oil , feed to other units, base stock for lube oils and bitumen. Caltex haven't used added octane inprovers since Tetraethyl lead was removed some years ago. We do add a cleaner that cleans fuel systems.

MOst of the Benzene will be removed from all gasoline on the 1st January 2006. This is a Government regulation.If you got BP hi octane fuel in WA it came from BP"s refinery in Kwinnana. If you got Optimax or Synergy or Vortex it came from that same refinery.Sometimes we will send fuel to Victoria to meet a need of the refiners down there and if we have supply probs they will ship it up to Sydney. There aren't tankers runningaround the coast with finished product to stock all the different brands. Kurnell supplies 2/3 of NSW petrol needs so it would be difficult to send any to other states as well.Hope this helps Sorry MIK I misunderstood the tolune part. thought people thought it was an additive. Toluene is used as a solvent in producing lube oils in some processes

[noise]

Unless fuel samples were taken from all over Australia at many different times, the results of the tests are bullshit and don’t hold much more validity then a debate on the internet.

[Col-GTSX]

That was a great read.....

Was waiting for someone to do a proper test....

Didnt have my mone on caltex tho.... I assumed Optimax was a touch better....

My own tests....

Caltex 98 - Car pinged its tits off (thought i must have got regular unleaded)

BP Ultimate - Car ran great 270km per tank (air fuel ratios were good)

Shell 98 Optimax - Car ran a little rough 300km per tank (air fuel ratios were bordering un safe)

So i generally use Ultimate or Optimax. I find when using Ultimate my bumper is heaps dirtier after a tank and believe this is due to Optimax being a little cleaner.... Also i drive my car the same all the time.... Average fuel consumption is the same every time.... 300 per optimax and 270 from ultimate.... Plus i can get 4cents off at shell.... So i try to get shell as often as possible... However im empty today so im gonna fill on Caltex 98 and try again.... Maby i just got a bum batch the first time????

[ECR033]

Using Sydney as an example, am I right in assuming that all 98RON fuel sold here by BP and Mobil is either Optimax (from Clyde) or Vortex (from Kurnell) since neither BP or Mobil have refineries here?

If that is correct, do BP or Mobil (using Sydney as an example again) add their own additives to the fuel refined at Clyde or Kurnell to get their own unique fuel mixture which they then brand as Ultimate or Synergy 8000 respectively?

If they don't add their own additives, then I'm confused as to how there can be differing result between each of the fuels as essentially they should be one of two variants available (given that the tests were conducted in Sydney).

Hopefully someone in the know can answer these questions...it would be interesting to know what really happens.

Might also stop me going out of my way to buy a particular fuel

[Col-GTSX]

Case and point.... refer pic....

After one tank of ultimate....

[leech_]

Case and point.... refer pic....

After one tank of ultimate....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

going off your fuel consumption and how dirty your rear bar is either you have a massive amount of power or your car is running way to rich... i guess its hard for me to see if my rear bar is very dirty being black and all but i dont seem to get much/if any crap on my rear bar and i only use ultimate.

[Col-GTSX]

My comparison was between shell optimax and bp ultimate....

Optimax does not do that to my car.... only ultimate....

[williamsf1]

still no clear answers....

why is it that nearly all the top dyno shops say to use BP?

[RB30-POWER]

How can you do a test with a select batch of fuel.

How about the sample the fuel from 100 different servos around Aust and make a comparison.

Look for consistancy in the performance of the fuels as well.

Ill be sticking with the BP Ultimate myself.

[Duncan]

Catalytic reforming units are used to increase the octane of HSR to bring it up to a RON of 95-102. Petrol from the bowser is usually a mix of different unit rundowns that are blended to and tested to be sold.Toluene is not added to increase RON. Toluene, Benzene, Propane, Butane, Xylene, Cyclohexanes, etc are all products of the Reaction in our Reactors. Heat is used to increase the reaction that gives a higher RON.Shell talks about density of Optimax. The density of our rundowns are usually quite a bit higher . This is one of the specs we run to.

HSR  is what is distilled from crude oil. There is usually about 4-6 different types of crude running through a crude unit at any time. We use about 10 differing crudes. This is due to availability , and specs needed for summer or winter fuel , Diesel , jet fuel, heating oil , feed to other units, base stock for lube oils and bitumen. Caltex haven't  used added octane inprovers since Tetraethyl lead was removed some years ago. We do add a cleaner that cleans fuel systems.

MOst of the  Benzene will be removed from all gasoline on the 1st January 2006. This is a Government regulation.If you got BP hi octane fuel in WA it came from BP"s refinery in Kwinnana. If you got Optimax or Synergy or Vortex it came from that same refinery.Sometimes we will send fuel to Victoria to meet a need of the refiners down there and if we have supply probs they will ship it up to Sydney. There aren't tankers runningaround the coast with finished product to stock all the different brands. Kurnell supplies 2/3 of NSW petrol needs so it would be difficult to send any to other states as well.Hope this helps Sorry MIK I misunderstood the tolune part. thought people thought it was an additive. Toluene is used as a solvent in producing lube oils in some processes

Thanks for the info kimbod its great

I'm also interested in ECR033's question....do we only have 2 identical products in NSW or are they modified by each supplier either at the refinery or afterwards?

[180bfj20det]

Talking about fuels...toluene was used in f1 cars in the 80s at 85 percent. It was very sucessful and these cars were making here hp per liter. Just wandering if anyone could pm me where to get toluene...??

Cheers

[kimbod]

Shell Clyde would make Optimax in NSW. I have heard good things about BP's hi octane ,the same as most people have heard about the problems optimax caused in older cars. Each refinery have different plants that are used to make their fuel. We have different units to Shell and to the other companies, Since the companies use different methods to get the legal specs the compostions will obviously be slightly different. During the Ford Sierra days Shell would make special blends for DJ. we made a special one for Colin Bonds Alfa.

[kimbod]

Talking about fuels...toluene was used in f1 cars in the 80s at 85 percent. It was very sucessful and these cars were making here hp per liter. Just wandering if anyone could pm me where to get toluene...??

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if anybody would be allowed to buy it. Companies can of course. During the Turbo days Ferrari's fuel supplier[i think ELF] would add an amount of water to the fuel . They had little mixers in the tank to keep it in suspension This helped with keeping the engine alive . Little motors with BIG horsepower. If my old senile mind is right BMW"s 4 cylinder would have a qualifing BHP of around 1500-1700hp

[noise]

Maybe the people with dirty bumpers should put their cats back on.

[CEF11E]

Tolulene is the most common ingredient in octane booster and can be purchased as High aromatic thinners. you need to make sure it is 100% tolulene. it comes from paint stores. A mixture of 10% tolulene in 98 RON is acceptible. it also increases the MON ratin of the fuel.

Water can also be added to fuel however in a high enough density it has the ability to hydrolock an engine. a better way to do it is thru injection into the intake before the throttle body

[Loop]

Using Sydney as an example, am I right in assuming that all 98RON fuel sold here by BP and Mobil is either Optimax (from Clyde) or Vortex (from Kurnell) since neither BP or Mobil have refineries here?

Pretty much. Many years ago (OK, not that many) I worked at Clyde Refinery, and there was a single 6 inch pipe that went across the river to BP's facility in Silverwater.

If that is correct, do BP or Mobil (using Sydney as an example again) add their own additives to the fuel refined at Clyde or Kurnell to get their own unique fuel mixture which they then brand as Ultimate or Synergy 8000 respectively?

Ahh ... here's where things get tricky, because one side is certainly not going to tell the other what they do

If they don't add their own additives, then I'm confused as to how there can be differing result between each of the fuels as essentially they should be one of two variants available (given that the tests were conducted in Sydney).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There could be a few explanations. The fuel samples mentioned in the report say they drew the fuel from the bowser. Now, the fuel in the storage tank at the servo is going to be a mix of different batches of fuel, *potentially* from different sources. (ie: Singapore exports a fair amount of fuel to Australia). But, since the sources were mentioned in the report, then this needs to be accounted for.

[Loop]

Unless fuel samples were taken from all over Australia at many different times, the results of the tests are bullshit and don’t hold much more validity then a debate on the internet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really, a report is only as accurate as the data, and as long as this fact is mentioned in the report, then it is valid for the samples under test only.

[WazR32GTSt]

hmmm interesting results..

it's good that someone had a go at this age-old question, but i'm not convinced

Having meself been in medical research, its very hard to just do something and have everyone believe it. you have to prove it to them and remove ANY variable to show that the SINGLE factor that changed results was the factor in question. This is always going to be very hard with this kind of test

My quarms are that:

- tests were not repeated

- use of only one engine type (forced induction only)

- use of a modified car rather than stock car with stock ECU

- where did they get thir fuel from? local petrol station vs. directly from the supplier --> they could have measured the octane rating themselves to get the exact octane rating of the fuel they used rather than go by the advertised octane

my conclusion:

it was a fine "experiment", but was not conclusive enough to base anything solid on

just my 2c

[Col-GTSX]

Maybe the people with dirty bumpers should put their cats back on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a brand new 3" high flow in my car.... (purchased 10/9/05)

Not so new now... LOL