How to fit a blower in an R33

[Steve]

HI,

Was toying with the idea of putting a blower on my skyline, just to see how the bottom/mid range torque would compare to a turbo.

Has anyone done this, and if so, where can you fit a blower?

I am having trouble finding a suitable spot, without loosing the aircon, which I dont want to do.

Cheers

Steve

[meggala]

Sdu has a great thread on this subjuct at the moment have a read you might need to do a search http://forums.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Steve,

I saw you were after a blower, and now I know why. Sounds like an interesting idea, I'll be hanging out to find out what you discover, keep us posted.

See'ya:burnout:

[Doctor]

I am thinking about doing that but retaining the turbo too. Room and pipe work is the big issue though!!!!!

[Steve]

Meggala, cheers for that, did a search and still didn't answer my main quesiton. I think my big hurdle at this point is actually finding somewhere to stick the bloody thing on. this car is a daily driver, so no way I want to loose my aircon, plus I will need to leave room for the turbo

GTS-t VSPEC, will do - if I can figure out where to fit it!

[Zdenko]

i say forget about da charger

go Nos for bottom nd

work alot better i recon...

[MegaGTS4]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...=&threadid=4207

This thread might be worth a look!

Warpspeed would be the one to talk to!(thats if he is still around)

MEGA

[Steve]

Hey Mega, I've acutally e-mailed warpspeed about this exact thing and after a bit of research have decided I would like to give it a go. Just having major dramas working out where to put the bloody thing. At this rate it looks like I will have to end up with a bloody great hump in the bonnet - something that might just grab a bit too much attention from the boys in blue me thinks

Cheers for your reply.

Steve

[MegaGTS4]

Have you seen this pic steve.

Might still be able to fit a turbo back there but the pipe work would be a killer!

[MegaGTS4]

or this one!

Might be worth getting rid of the aircon after all!

[KamikazeR33]

i had seen a pic and i thought i had it, of a rb26dett fitted with one on the right side, lower than that pic, more nearer the bottom end of the motor

the motor wasnt in the car but it did look great and powerful

[Warpspeed]

Hi again Steve. Only just spotted this thread, have been busy with other things.

As I said in my e-mail mounting and driving the blower is about 95% of the work, the rest is relatively easy and straightforward.

Yeah, I know exactly how you feel, when you look at the size of the blower, and look in the engine bay it looks absolutely impossible. I have done this a few times myself on other engines, so here is how I would go about it.

When you have decided on a likely candidate blower, try and get a look at one in the flesh, and collect some pictures of it as well. Then obtain an engineering drawing with all dimensions, maybe from a website, or the agent/manufacturer.

Dont laugh, but make yourself a crude dummy blower out of wood, polystyrene, or even foam rubber. Then you can figure out where to put it, and how to mount and drive it. You will ALWAYS have to move other stuff to fit it in.

Once you know roughly where it is going to go, get yourself a spare engine block from somewhere, (RB30?) and use this to fabricate the mounting brackets, and drive system away from the car.

Do not try to do it on the engine in the car, because the access will be difficult and visibility poor. You need a spare engine block up on the workbench in good light, to ensure the blower rotors are exactly parallel with the crank, and the drive pulleys directly in line.

I still do not own a Skyline yet, but have a spare RB26 block and crank, and dummy Whipple blower made up.

With the airconditioning pump , power steering pump, and engine mount removed there will be a fair bit of room to figure out where the blower will fit. It must take pride of place FIRST, then work out how everything else is going to go back.

My plan is to fit a Whipple which is long and thin, as high as possible against the engine block. The blower mounting bracket will be quite complicated, because it will incorporate a new passenger side engine mount strut, that curves beneath the blower.

I do not know how an Eaton M90 compares for size, but they look fatter and shorter than a Whipple from pictures I have seen.

The blower mount will also relocate the airconditioning compressor lower down next to the sump. The compressor can be removed and relocated without disconnecting the hoses, so regassing will not be required.

Because I do not have a Skyline to measure from yet, I am not exactly sure what to do with the power steering pump, but here are some ideas of what MIGHT be possible.

A longer drive belt will go around the crank, aircon, and blower pulleys, and an external adjustable idler will be needed on the slack side of the belt. This is to adjust belt tension, and provide more belt wrap around the crank and blower.

Now to increase belt wrap the idler will be on the outside of the belt, and will therefore turn backwards. If there is enough room, it may be possible to turn the power steering pump around so that it is in front of the drive belt, and use it as an adjustable tensioner. Rotation of the power steering pump will therefore be correct. I just do not know yet if there is enough room to actually do this or what might be in the way?

Another consideration might be that the original four rib airconditioner belt might be better upgraded to a six rib belt. Most superchargers come with a six rib pulley standard, and I am sure the Denso airconditioner clutch/pulley could be easily replaced with a six rib part from another car as a staight bolt on swap.

The RB25 crank pulley might need to be modified or swapped for something else. This needs some further investigation.

[Steve]

Thanks for all the replies. Certainly given me some ideas and some direction.

Once again Warspeed, many thanks for the technical advice - now to find an old block.

I have decided to go the toyota SC14, as at $350 they are alot cheaper than an eaton which I cant find second hand - so even if they wear out a bit quicker than an eaton might, it wont be an expensive exercise to replace it, and its a bit smaller than an eaton too.

Cheers

Steve

[Warpspeed]

Well if you have your heart set on an SC14, it will certainly be easier to fit, but I still feel this blower is going to be way too small for you.

But on the other hand, for $350, it is a very low cost way to learn all about supercharging. You will gain a very great deal of experience from this first blower project.

Later when you get seriously bitten by the supercharger bug, you will be prepared to fork out a bit more cash for a better blower, and facing all the problems will be a lot less daunting.

[Steve]

Hmmm, well I have to wait a while anyway as I just got an HKS 3037 turbo realy cheap - for an hks turbo.

Might just keep that inmind, spose it would be really disappointing to go to all the trouble only to discover I should have listened to someone who knew what they were talking about. The eaton would be alot more reliable and give me some room to turn up the boost a bit as well.

Also the SC14 when fitted to the toyota engine, when the engine is warmend up, raises the temp from 50F to 270. does this seem excessive?

What sort of displacement is the SC14 in cubes by the way? I 'thought' it was close to the eaton 90? Too many things to remeber - brain hurting.

so many bloody questions

[Steve]

MegaGTS4, some nice photos there. do you happen to know what type of blower the top photo is? It looks a bit smaller than the one I was looking at - so might be yet another alternative.

Cheers

Steve

[Warpspeed]

Steve, I believe the SC14 is 1400cc displacement which is about the same as an M90 but there the similarity ends.

The main problems with the SC14 revolve around excessive heating of both the blower itself, and the air from internal friction of the teflon rotors.

On a small engine say 1.5 Litres this is not too bad if you use the clutch and only run the blower for short bursts at stock type boost levels.

Tryng to fit this blower onto a larger engine by running it faster, only makes this problem far worse. Particularly if you plan to run the blower continuously.

What happens is the rotors drag inside the case and heat up. The rotors then expand which causes more frictional heat and so on. Eventually either the blower wears out and becomes noisy, or the teflon peels off the rotors.

The rotors inside the M90 are not teflon coated and there is mechanical clearance between the rotors and case. The M90 can be constantly driven at high RPM without the frictional heat buildup. Provided you run an air cleaner it should last just about forever.

[Warpspeed]

I just realised that in an earlier post I said the SC14 was way too small, then in a later post that the SC14 and M90 are actually about the same size. Duh...

In a sense it is true though. I perhaps should have said, the airflow at max reliable blower RPM for the SC14 is not going to be sufficient for your RB25DE.

Example, SC14 fitted to Toyota 1G-GZE engine, 2.0 Litres probably driven around 1.1 crank speed, 160 Kw worth of airflow. Boost in the region of 8 psi, blower driven intermittently only.

M90 fitted to Jaguar 4.0 Litre, driven continuously at 2.5 times crank speed, 230 Kw worth of airflow, boost level 10 psi.

M90 fitted to Holden 3.8 Litre V6, driven at 1.8 times crank speed, boost 7 psi, 165 Kw worth of airflow.

[APA]

hey guys

i got this picture

or a supercharged rb26dett

have a look

[MegaGTS4]

Steve,

As far as I know the Eaton M90 Supercharger(roots type) is designed for 3.0l to 5.0l engines so I am afraid this supercharger might be under driven on a RB20/25 (usually the best is 1:1, RPM:blower Rev. as warpspeed posted) and this might effect effeciency and another problem is the actual size of the supercharger with the eaton M90 being designed mainly for V configuration motors and has a strange port configuration (inlet on the back and outlet on the underside as do most eaton SC) and the long distance between the pulley and actual supercharger housing.

As for the sc14 sounds like a cheaper and better choice for what you want to do!

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~ovlov/techni...ical/blower.htm

Has some handy info! on the sc14 ( sorry about the = ,and the =20 on the above link just ignore them)

Also Ape grape racing has some technical info on types of supercharger's might help you decide which one suits you better!

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRaci.../tech/index.cfm

Both the M90 and the sc14 are examples of positive displacement compressors (roots type) and this style of supercharger best suits the aplication of a turbo and supercharger setup!

Sorry steve but I don't know exactly what supercharger that's in that pic! Just found it on the net! Maybe even here? or at the other skyline fourm?.

CYA

MEGA