How To Eliminate Understeer?

[Nathan_G1]

Hey guys, just wondering.....ive recently upgraded my suspension to Tein HR coilovers and got some front and rear adjustable camber arms, im not sure what il need to add next im thinking more front work because the other night on the track i was understeering like s**t even though i got it set up sort of drift-street spec, toe in rear and 2degree camber front. i want to eliminate the understeer and gain full over steer so the rear drifts out when i steer.

Any suggestions what i need???

Any help is most appreciated

Thanks

[Richo]

strut brace and bigger sway bars, very good grippy rubber at the front, maybe

if none of that works just E-brake it!!!!

[Nathan_G1]

strut brace and bigger sway bars, very good grippy rubber at the front, maybe

if none of that works just E-brake it!!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just e-brake it...not that good yet, clutch kicking for me is the better option. il have to take the advice of sway bars and strut brace.......gota get rid of this understeer its driving me nuts. anything else i should perhaps see about

[rob82]

Want you want to do is either create the rear to stop gripping or the front to grip more. These are the two opproaches.

I would suggest removing the front strut brace, chances are its to rigid and there is no give in the chassis therefore not allowing it to twist. You might also want a softer spring on the front and maybe less tyre pressure.

Or find the strongest rear strut brace you can and the highest F/mm (hardest) spring you can find for the rear. And also try more rear tyre pressure.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

grab some whiteline adjustable swaybars. ~190 each (check http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=92126)

play around with the settings, but generally rears on hard for less understeer.

For Drift, I'd say

1. Diff

2. More Castor (Rods or bushes or some form of adjustment)

are *essential*, I suggest those be your next moves.

Stock Viscous LSD in 12-15 year old cars tends to be quite worn. Very important that your diff locks properly.

A good article on diffs for drift is

http://www.garage-13.com/difftech.html

As rob82 suggested, can look at tyres too, i usually inflate rears to 38-40psi helps it break traction easily. Fronts lower (i run 34psi or so). But experiment and see what works best.

front tyres should have plenty of tread. Very important.

Also consider power / tyre choice. stock r32 will have lots of trouble breaking traction with 18x10's and a stock lsd. Consider grabbing some cheapo drift rims when starting out.

Handbrake is generally safer than clutch kick for beginners when drifting (helps you wash off speed). Practice 90deg and 180deg turns with handbrake. and practice doing donuts.

With your understeer problem, I'd say it's probably your technique rather than car setup. I wouldn't worry too much about swaybars for now. but they are something to consider in the future. Japanese hard as f**k coilovers tend to be ok with stock swaybars.

I'd say get Diff and Castor first, then start thinking about swaybars.

My R32 understeered like a pig when I first started, but you just have to learn when to handbrake, when to gas, when to kick the clutch and you can make them slide very nicely.

Edited November 4, 2005 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

oh and just to add. Rear strut brace for me, made a *huge* difference..... get one of them too!

[blind_elk]

Sorry, but you need more air in the front to reduce understeer.

[rob82]

Sorry, but you need more air in the front to reduce understeer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really is a balance with tyre pressure's, as long as the tyre wall is not flexing onto itself less pressure helps as there is a larger suface area for road contact. Increasing tyre pressures reduces the tyres ability to flex and becomes to rigid.

[dangerous_daveo]

Sorry, but you need more air in the front to reduce understeer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not if you have too much, then you would need less

Anyway, as SK would probably say. How high is your car? I had/have extreamly heavy springs in the front, I found rasing the car a good 2inches made it handle a LOT better, as the suspension was then able to work in the way it was intended. Potentially whats happening is, your hitting a bump, and losing the camber you have, or swing in to the corner, same deal.

[Nathan_G1]

its a good height, front tyres may be causing extra slide, 205/55/R16, compared to the rears 225/45/R16, that could cause some understeering problems. dont have any adjustable castor arms, need them sway bars and stuff. but i still couldnt beleive the amount of understeer considering the set up i already have. so any more ideas would still be greatly appreciaited

[Sydneykid]

Hey guys, just wondering.....ive recently upgraded my suspension to Tein HR coilovers and got some front and rear adjustable camber arms, im not sure what il need to add next im thinking more front work because the other night on the track i was understeering like s**t even though i got it set up sort of drift-street spec, toe in rear and 2degree camber front. i want to eliminate the understeer and gain full over steer so the rear drifts out when i steer.

Any suggestions what i need???

Any help is most appreciated

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simple, suggestion follow;

1. What's this the toe in on the rear? Toe out on the rear for oversteer.

2. While on the subject of toe, what's the front tow set to?

3. No mention of caster, for fast turn in, you need lots of caster. At least 7 degrees, 8 is better.

4. Soften the front spring and shock rate for more front grip, stiffen the rear spring rate and shock for less grip

5. Time to spend some money, an adjustable rear stabiliser bar is a must, $219 on the Group Buy at the moment.

6. I didn't see HICAS removed on your list, if it isn't, then it's long overdue. GTR Geoff has HICAS locking bars for around $150, with good DIY instructions.

7. I didn't see any rear subframe stiffness upgrades or alignment. They are also on the Group Buy for $105.

8. What's the rear camber? You need to eliminate almost all of the negative camber that you introduced by lowering it.

That should fix the understeer problem.

Cheer

[Nathan_G1]

Thanks SK, i do have pineapples and i also have a HICAS lock kit installed, did it myself and its holding up lol. can i adjust my standard castor arms, or should i get adjustables? i dont know what my front toe is set to, nor the rear but im pretty sure they said something like put my toe in on the rear and my camber is pumped out on the rear they didnt adjust that.....im going back there 2moro to stables suspension, apparantly they did Danny Vahoumis' car and there sposed to set mine up identical to that? let me know what i should be looking for man, thanks

[Sydneykid]

Thanks SK, i do have pineapples and i also have a HICAS lock kit installed, did it myself and its holding up lol. can i adjust my standard castor arms, or should i get adjustables? i dont know what my front toe is set to, nor the rear but im pretty sure they said something like put my toe in on the rear and my camber is pumped out on the rear they didnt adjust that.....im going back there 2moro to stables suspension, apparantly they did Danny Vahoumis' car and there sposed to set mine up identical to that? let me know what i should be looking for man, thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just post up the settings (front and rear, toe, camber and caster) and I will give you my 20 cents worth.

Cheers

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

Sorry, but you need more air in the front to reduce understeer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how do u figure???

in drift you always run less air in fronts. by overinflating the rears it makes it more easy to spin them in a drift -- whilst you want as much traction as possible from front tyres.

anyway,

What are your subframe bushes set to? drift or grip...

thanks for mentioning hicas lock.... that's something i haven't gotten around to getting rid of, but to be honest, i've been drifting fine with it in for 6 months now.

you want settings more tailored to a skyline, vahoumis drives a S13... skylines don't like to be lowered too much, whilst s13's can be dumped on it's arse without screwing up the wheel alignment. Just something to consider.

[jazza08]

My 32 has been lowered on coil-overs and Im not into drift etc but found it understeers more than i would like it to... id prefer to set it up for track. I was under the impression that a front and rear strut brace would help handling??

Does HICAS make the cars handle worse...?

[Sydneykid]

My 32 has been lowered on coil-overs and Im not into drift etc but found it understeers more than i would like it to... id prefer to set it up for track. I was under the impression that a front and rear strut brace would help handling??

Does HICAS make the cars handle worse...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Worse", is not the word I would use. More like "unpredictable". This is discussed many many times, try doing a search (HICAS - Sydneykid) if you want more info.

Cheers

[jazza08]

Thanks dude will do, is there anything this bloke doesnt know? Hahaha

Edited November 5, 2005 by jazza08

[Nathan_G1]

Yeh sorry for late reply, but the HICAS is crap man, i found a huge difference im my rear handling as soon as i got rid of it, mind you my left toe arm was broken as well so i was crabbing all the way to the suspension guy..........ALL FIXED however. I mite get better ones soon, but just now i was at the suspension specialist, my standard castor rods at front are as far as they can go out, they wont adjust my rear toe outwards, theyve kept it in, and only suggested lowering the car at the front 20mm to perhaps settle it down for more oversteer.....they said try that at pt.gawler monday night and let us know, if it still does it, we'l try something new

[Sydneykid]

Yeh sorry for late reply

1. but the HICAS is crap man, i found a huge difference im

my rear handling as soon as i got rid of it, mind you my left toe arm was broken as well so i was crabbing all the way to the suspension guy..........ALL FIXED however.

2. I mite get better ones soon, but just now i was at the suspension specialist, my standard castor rods at front are as far as they can go out

3. they wont adjust my rear toe outwards, theyve kept it in

4. and only suggested lowering the car at the front 20mm to perhaps settle it down for more oversteer

5. they said try that at pt.gawler monday night and let us know, if it still does it, we'l try something new

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My suggestions follow;

1. Yep you are better off with no HICAS

2. Standard caster (radius) rods aren't adjustable, so does that mean you have adjustable bushes (at the front of the caster rods) and they are adjusted for as much caster as possible? Have a look they should be yellow bushes at the front of the radius rod, like this;

If so how much caster does it have?

3. Did they tell you why they are insisting on toe in? Toe in gives dull response, exactly what you don't want in a drift car. I don't understand how toe in can help.

4. Well that might work, but if it has no front suspension travel left it will bottom out and understeer savagely. So be carefull.

5. Good luck, please let us know how it goes.

cheers

[Nathan_G1]

il find out how it goes for now when i hit the track monday - if its still playing around and understeering il hit the posts straight away. They never gave me an explanation for the toe in for the rear - as for the castor rods, im pretty sure mine are standard, but they do have thread and a nut where u can play around with the setting. They dont look upgraded and i noticed the same on my mates R32. Il upgrade my front ones and probly get some adjustable sway bars as well, the greater and faster my steering the better