How To Eliminate Understeer?

[mr_rbman]

just noticed u mentioned pt gawler so i'm guessin your from SA. If this is correct go and see Scotty from AVS with all your suspension queries cause i'm guessing from they way u been talking u haven't been to see him. He deals with a lot of the top sa drift guys and knows his stuff!

[Nathan_G1]

AVS?? i was recommended to the guys from stables, they set up a few as well, including Denzo's car. But yeh maybe il go there and see what they think.....can you hook me up with there address?

[mr_rbman]

i can't find there card at the moment but if u google them i'm pretty sure you'll find them, they're just off south rd near castle plaza!

[Nathan_G1]

Everyones near castle plaza lol........thanks heaps brother, il look em up and see what they can do for me. The better my sus set-up the better il be. Thanks heaps

[Nathan_G1]

im booking my car in this week, hopefuly they help me out and set my car up sick ways....the more i add the better it will be, im thinking bout going all out, but ive still got my RB26 to buy in about 2 months - c wat happens, il keep ya's updated

[Nathan_G1]

Goes to AVS tuesday, but just now ive added adjustable castor arms to the front and sydneykid is sending me a whiteline rear stabilizer bar (not sure when itl get to me yet) but that should make a huge difference to the cars handling, however half my problem is drifting without a 2way mechanical diff, once ive ordered that i should be a little better, but once it gets back from avs it should be a sweet ride

[Sydneykid]

sydneykid is sending me a whiteline rear stabilizer bar (not sure when itl get to me yet)

Jamex will be shipping the bar to you tomorrow, the Toll Priority con note number has been advised via PM.

cheers

[Roy]

A quick question from a person that knows d1ck about drifting. But it seems a lot pf people that have their susp set of drift have handlign problems???

Is it a good idea to just start with a nicely set up neutral car with no vices? No crazy camber, toe, castor settings, crazy ride heights etc and that way you can at least get a decent baseline.

My car just uses off the shelf Whiteline kit with basically their recommended settings. Just tweakin my rear swaybar turned it into a tail happy POS at Winton this year whilst running DO1Js:(

Perhaps stay away from radical suspension settings until you find what you like...i suspect the setups of cars vary greatly between how the owners like their cars so anothers guys gun setup may suck for you???

Anyway, just a few thoughts base don nothing but conjecture

[Nathan_G1]

Skylines have a trait of understeering its what they do.....im trying to set it up so that it over steers so i can basically flick it and the rear will come out...thats my aim thats what i want. A drift set-up for me is what im after, as for normal road use yeh u dont really have to worry about camber, but a degree in the front wouldnt hurt to give a little extra steering while cornering quicker.......il keep you guys posted on this topic coz its going for a proper setup on tuesday and monday week il b back on the track.....so il send my settings and let u know how it all goes

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

yeah, with setting up a car from drift. Generally bad idea to just change everything all at once. ie you see cars which have every sort of adjustble suspension component known to man, and if you install them all at once, it is hard to tweak it to get the right settings.

Here is the order I did things setting up my car, which i have no problems drifting.

1. Height Adjustable Coilovers (came with car, shocks needed a rebuild, was getting a lot of body-roll)

2. Welded Diff (essential, my viscous was worn out to hell)

3. Castor rods (+9 degrees castor, heaps better steering)

4. Front and Rear Strut tower brace (front didn't make much difference, but difference with the rear on was significant, was understeering a lot less

5. Better Coilovers (Quantum, just got full recondition)

Aside from that, stock, with standard wheel alignment settings for toe, camber. Height is lowered a bit, but not too much.

The car is of course, still under development, but it's at a stage where I'm drifting easily -- not as good as it could be, but im not having any serious handling problems.

Next steps are

6. Hicas Lock (probably should have done this earlier, but not causing me any problems getting it sideways)

7. Aftermarket Tie Rods (more steering lock)

8. Camber Arms

There was a while there where I was drifting with rooted suspension, locked diff and castor rods that i'd borrowed from a friend. And was going ok.

Car got off the boat from japan, first mod i did was lock the diff up and then drift the thing. best cheap mod ever!!!!

anyway, my basic point is. Keep it simple, then start expanding, that way you can get used to each mod and what particular settings will do to the handling. And I don't think this just applies to drift, but for any suspension set up.

Using an off the shelf "package" with recommended setup, won't suit some drivers, I prefer to set things up myself, and just experiment with things until I find something that works.

That's hard to do when you have a package that's already to set up, say if you find it too snappy, where do you start?

--

edit, anyway just to add. Car setup, is one part of it, the rest of it's technique.... grab a copy of Drift Bible, it has some useful technique tips for dealing with cars with inherent understeer or inherent oversteer.

Edited November 13, 2005 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[Nathan_G1]

Yeh thats true......i now have the suspension, hicas lock kit, pineapples(set to drift), adjustable front and rear camber arms and front adjustable castor arms and a rear stabilizer bar coming.

Tuesdays getting everything re-set-up.....and then il go from there, might get some adjustable tie rod ends sooner or later, but a 2way diff hasnt been put on and that would help me a lot

as well as some strut braces

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

oops, forgot to add, i also have alloy subframe spacers (pineapples). inclined for "drift"

Nathan, what diff are you using?

[Nathan_G1]

so far its a viscous.......(my bad i know i shouldnt b using it coz there shite) im most likely ordering a cusco 2 way mz type 2moro unless i can get it cheaper from someone else....my price was 1250 deliverd to my door brand new.

[Roy]

Using an off the shelf "package" with recommended setup,  won't suit some drivers,  I prefer to set things up myself,  and just experiment with things until I find something that works.   

That's hard to do when you have a package that's already to set up,  say if you find it too snappy,  where do you start?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe... but again i cant drift for sh1t, its a bit of fun if your not doing anything else on a Sunday afternoon to go down to Calder for a spin, but i suck at it.

But thats the thing i suck at it, it has little to do with my car setup. And i hope thats a polite way of saying that its best perhaps to do some basic advanced driving lessons on car control, balance, braking etc before spending all this money trying to get a car to do something dynamics dictate is pretty difficult.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

$1,250 is a good price for cusco. You can get a kaaz 2-way a bit cheaper (around $1,100) from some of the sponsors (nissansilvia.com)

Diff is most important thing for drift, if you are using a viscous.... then you're likely to have a date with a pole sooner or later. Think of it as a safety device!!! worn viscous can be very dangerous.

anyway, it's great to just get out there and give it a go, drift has always been known as something anyone can get out there and do, with a relatively cheap car / setup.

[Duncan]

I'm not sure what you mean, AFAIK there are no poles on race tracks so how could you hit one?

That aside, whether for drift or circuit a good diff makes an amazing difference.....but be careful if you are looking for circuit use a 2 way diff will definately *increase* understeer. Which is why a 1 way diff is a much better choice for track use

[Nathan_G1]

Im all about drift, so il b grabbing a 2-way....one thing i really need to get, and yeh i agree 1250 is a good price, but i gota use my abn and business name to get that price otherwise there around 1500-1600, but gota pay all upfront and wait 3-5 weeks.......dam japan freighting

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

I'm not sure what you mean, AFAIK there are no poles on race tracks so how could you hit one?

That aside, whether for drift or circuit a good diff makes an amazing difference.....but be careful if you are looking for circuit use a 2 way diff will definately *increase* understeer.  Which is why a 1 way diff is a much better choice for track use

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

poles/fences/walls/ripple strips/gutters...... whatever man drifting with worn viscous is not pretty because it's unpredictable, and it can open up when you don't want it to -- this can cause understeer, and if you're heading towards a wall at the time, it's baaaad. In drift, you are constantly on and off throttle when drifting a corner, so it's not suitable to have the diff unlock when you lift off throttle.

yeah, wouldn't use a 2-way for circuit. but for drift 1-ways are really bad, because they open up as soon as you back off throttle, which is not what you want.

If i had $$$ i'd get a 2-way, but for now, the locker does it's job. Once the diff breaks, ill get a 2way, but it's been going strong for 6 months of drifting at least once a week.

Edited November 14, 2005 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[Nathan_G1]

Thats pretty damn good, 6 months for a welded diff and weekly drifting. Impressive, usually they dont hold to long, but whoever welded it did a good job obviously.....give me a holler if you ever want the cusco diffs, problem is its cash up front and 4-5 weeks, but its 1250 instead of a shit load more and there great diffs.

Oh yeh, my car is now at AVS and the work starts 2moro, il let ya's know how she goes.......but i think my turbo is on its way out, its soo much louder then it used to be (could be a manifold leak where the snappd stud is...coz it does sound like is leaking exhaust) but meh....il sort something out

[Nathan_G1]

OK cars back from AVS and straight away i noticed a huge difference in handling, they did my sh*t perfect i rekn....but pt.gawler will tell me otherwise.........ive still got my rear stabilizer bar coming and to put on, and i mite order a fully adjustable front sway bar........Scott from AVS is a champ and knows his shizzit....if your from adelaide i rken hes the guy to see for a perfect set-up, he wont let u know the full extent of wat he did (how would he get repeated business) but so far so good, without a 2-way locker it handles like a dream under slide, pm me or just reply to this for a good idea of how to set ur car up