Real Old Skyline Info

[C-Red]

Humans,

Got myself a KGC10 and I cant find anyone that knows a damn thing about them. My primary query at this point in time is are they similar underneath to a 240Z or a GC110 (240K).

Many Thanks,

Jash

[MYGTST]

what engine is in it ?

i got the service manual for the r30 which has the L24 engine

[meggala]

I suspect they are very different to the 240k

but I could be wrong

remember google is your friend and the japs would have documented all about it

nice to see you hear jash post a pic if you could

meggala

[summoner]

www.c-red.com.au under new stock.. its the metallic blue car.. would make a nice sprint/autokhana vehicle

[MegaGTS4]

That ad should say KPGC10 for a real GTR the standard 2 door GT skyline is KGC10 and also the KPGC10 GTR was fitted with the 1998cc 160hp double over head cam 6cyl S20 engine! Not the L28!(280Z) and the KGC10 was Powered by the 1988cc 106hp OHC 6cyl. G7 series engine and later the 1973cc 109hp OHC 6cyl. L20 engine!

Still it is one nice car!!

Don't think I would pay that price though!

MEGA

[hakosuka]

I am no expert but I would imagine that your rather unique and enviable purchase has much much more in common with the 240K, as the 240K was the KGC10's immediate successor. Apparently the sedan version (not the twin cam s20 GTR) was exported to some wierd places like the Netherlands with the L24 engine -which made then unique as the car was never sold in Japan with more than 2 litres. As with the 240K, this generation of Skylines had IRS at the back if a 6 and rear leafs and a shorter body structure forward of the bonnet if a 4 cylinder.

I have a road test or two of the 240K and Wheels Magazine mentioned that the setup, whilst similar on paper to the 240Z was quite different, and superior in some ways too, such as tail squat under acceleration.

I know this is not much to go on, but I hope it helps.

Having a L28 in your car makes sense as the S20 motor, whilst looking and sounding more exotic, probably is less robust, costs heaps to repair and parts would be mega expensive and hard to get - especially in sunny Perth! Just make sure you drive it on sparsely trafficked roads - you don't want some retard hitting you (touch wood), what with panels not exactly being thick on the ground.

Sadly I would imagine there would be very little detailed technical info on these cars as they were not widely exported. Internet browser transaltion software will become a close friend, unless you read Japaneseor have a friend who does

If you can post a piccie or two - that would be great.

[Guest bwob]

Hakosuka igreat handle there!) has it right; the CG10s are quite similar to CG110s under the skin. Suspension geometry was effectively the same between both and the cars are structurally similar across the forward section of the floorpan, toeboard, cowl and engine box.

The single biggest structural difference was that the two-doors rode on a shortened wheelbase vis-a-vis the sedans, cropped where the rear clip welds to the floorpan - the two-doors had a die insert which shortened the pan. This mean that with fours and sixes both offering two-door hardtops as well as four-door sedans and wagons, there were four different wheelbases for CG10s. When the CG110 'Ken & Mary' Skylines (240Ks in export) came along, a single wheelbase from the firewall back was used for all models, so the four/six meant that 110s had 'only' two wheelbases.

Sorry to babble so long, but Ai no Skyline/Hakosuka and Ken & Mary Skylines are really near and dear to me from my misspent High School and Uni days in Japan. But I still want to make an RS Turbo out of an R30 five-door...

bwob

[blind_elk]

Don't go away, I'm trying to get contact details for our (NDSOC's) resident guru on the 'old' Skylines.

[blind_elk]

Talk to Noel Sinclair - 0438 511 652

You can also get him, apparently, at [email protected]

Also, I'm told, our VP Wayne ([email protected]) has one also, and is willing to offer any advice.

[C-Red]

Thanks for all your help guys.

MegaGTS4 - I listed it as KGC10 GT-R "Specification" Coupe, thats how they get referred to domestically when they have the GT-R bodywork and spoilers, if you'd ever seen a totally stock KGC10 you'd see what I mean. Plus no-one in their right mind would actually use an S20 these days - a super hot 2.2L will only put out 260 horse and they are brittle as hell. If I wasnt aiming to historic rally the car then I'd put a twin cam RB30 NA in it with throttle bodies.

Jash

[hakosuka]

MegaGTS4, as far as I am aware the KGC10 Skylines (in other words the new shape from 1968 and the first Skyline to be badged as a Nissan from the start) was never fittedwith the G7 (Prince design) engine that was fitted to the previous shape Prince/Nissan Skyline GTB. I could be wrong but I thought that any 6 cylinder Skylines - with "P" for Prince in the model code to - from this model onward had the L20 series etc.

A 2 litre SOHC GT or GTX (twin carbs - like the Jap spec 240Z motor) model hardtop or sedan made to look like a GTR can still command very good money in Japan if they are done right. If anyone say the last Performance Imports Skyline special edition magazine they would know what I mean.

bwob, how foolish of me to have forgotten to mention the differences in wheelbase between the hardtop and the sedan for the pre 240K era Skyline! I believe that the 240K type GTR had rear disc brakes too.

Does anyone know how many of these KGC10 Skylines (especially the tasty GTR) ever made it to Australia. They must be even rarer than stuff like the Toyota 1600GT - an official import by the way - less than 10 in Australia of them.

[Guest bwob]

the KGC10 Skyline... was never fittedwith the G7 (Prince design) engine that was fitted to the previous shape Prince/Nissan Skyline GTB

That's right. The G series six was dropped from the Skyline when the S54A and B were discontinued shortly before the introduction of the CG10. From the launch of the CG10 the Nissan-designed L series six was standardised in all Skylines (it had already replaced the G7 in the Gloria when the 'Royal Line' Glorias were released in 1967).

Nissan kept the four-cylinder G series engines around in short nose Skylines till the mid-life facelift for the CG110 was announced. Introduction of new emissions laws in Japan was the public rationale for the move to L series fours in place of the Prince-designed engines.

bwob

[MegaGTS4]

GTAAH-Sorry if I misread your ad!! (The car is probbably worth every cent!, but I personally wouldn't spend that much money on a car that can't be registered, personal choice more than anything!)

HAKOSUKA & BWOB- I was just quoting something I read on the net about the GC10 series sorry I must be wrong then.

And these sites must be wrong too!!!

http://www.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/history...ry/history.html

http://www.geocities.com/toasterino/Skylin.../SkylineGTR.htm

http://www.frinkiac7.clublotus.com/CarReso...SAN_SKYLINE.htm

MEGA

P.s BWOB its GC10 not CG10 get it right!!!(I had too)

[red17]

Im sorry, have i missed something? why cant it be registered? It is after all, over 15 years old.

Is that not the rule now under the new laws?

Red17

[MegaGTS4]

I don't think they have compliance plates for them as their age and they are only a low volume import I think, maybe I am wrong here too?

What new rule?

MEGA

[red17]

Doesnt mean it cant be registered, theres no need for compliance plates for anything over 15 years old. I was just wondering if this had changed under the new laws that are coming into action in May?

Red17

[C-Red]

Mega,

They are very much able to be registered - anywhere in Australia without a compliance plate. Anything 15 years old falls into that category. The 15 year old situation isnt changing with the new regs. We can even drive LHD stuff over here without converting when they are 15 years old.

Jash

[Guest bwob]

Mega, the references I was using - with one exception mentioned below - were my collection of Japanese brochures (which are pretty complete from the ALSID-2kai of February, 1960 up to and including the R30 introduction) and a special one-shot commemorating the 400th issue of the Japanese monthly Motor Fan (published by San'Ei Shobo, October, 1978) which has proven to be a real gold mine for data from every Japanese manufacturer - even weirdies like Flying Feather, Mikasa, Ohta and Tama Jidosha - from 1917 through early 1978.

All the information I have supports the fact that the S54-1 Prince Skyline GT-A (the first Skyline to use the G7 in-line six and announced on 13 March, 1964 ) kept the G7 up to the launch of the L20 powered CG10 Skyline 2000 GT which went on sale on 9 October, 1968.

The Motor Fan special also says that about 50 S54A GT-As were shipped to Holland in January, 1965 with the Prince G11 six (2497cc and 130hp), the only S54s built without the G7. I'd love to have one of those mutants in the garage.

I did stuff up about the G7 in the Gloria, however, by relying upon memory rather than checking the facts. When the Royal Line Gloria was launched on 15 April, 1967, it indeed retained the G7 and kept it till a mildly facelifted version appeared on 20 October, 1969 with L20s replacing G7s under the bonnet. Sorry about that.

bwob

[C-Red]

There ya go Mega, you cant always believe what you read on the net and you cant beat oldschool when it comes down to it. I had the option to buy a restorer spec 54 about 2 years ago and didnt - I'm still kicking my own arse for that. Bwob didnt Oz score some proper GT-B spec 54s?

Jash

[Guest bwob]

Bwob didn't Oz score some proper GT-B spec 54s?

Apparently a handful were brought into NSW by the old Prince importer. I e-mailed Robbo (Peter Robinson) and chatted with Mike McCarthy on this for a possible piece in the 50th anniversary issue of Wheels and both recall seeing a couple in the mid-1960s at the importer's office.

I was reading (in the Motor Fan special) that the Skyline development team at Ogikubo built two S54s with GR8 four-valve twincam sixes - predecessor to the S20 - from Prince R380s for evaluation. They were sort of the philosophical prototypes to the CG10 GT-R. I think I'd rather have one of those than a Dutch 2.5 litre S54.

bwob