Car Pinged @ 200kw

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Got my car dynoed at Power Tune last Sunday and it pinged pretty bad after 200kw. Was told by the mechanic there that the exhaust manifold is restrictive. Not saying he is wrong (the manifold could be the problem) but I thought stock manifold should be good enough for up to more than 250 kw ? Anyway I was also told that the turbo could flow more than 207kw as dynoed and may not be stock R33 turbo (same as what Hitman said) . I'm just confused as to what could make the car ping, is it timing (coz stock ecu), sparks ? Car wasnt running lean coz a ratio is less than 12:1.

My guess is coz the stock ECU and the timing is screwed. And if the turbo is actually not stock R33 then with a powerfc it could probably push up to 230kw ( I have to save up for that). By the way my mods are: full 3" zorst, panel filter, fmic, 500hp fuel pump, SAFC, bleed valve @ 12 psi, possible bigger injectors.

Here's the dyno result at Power Tune (non shoot-out) made 207kw and with Hitman about 2 months ago (shoot-out) made 212kw

[R31Nismoid]

207 with a stock ECU/12psi hhmm... i'd find out, certainly doesnt sound like a stocker turbo, figures are a "tad" hight.

If the car is pinging however, itll be the tuning of the SAF-C, or your fuel system isnt correct. Either way it comes back to the tuner and the work done (or not done)

Its probably a minor adjustement, if its audible pinging though... i'd be very worried

And i dont mean to sound negative, but thats not the best SAF-C tune in the world either, the line is all over the joint.

[Craved]

never heard of the manifold causing a car to ping.. but i have seen the std log style manifold running over 250 rwkw. so that wouldn't be causing it..

seems that Hitmans tune was a bit better than the recent one too. since the power curve is alot smoother. and still alot of fuel up top to keep it safe

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Assuming the supporting mods are fine, is stock ecu capable of being tuned to 250 kw with SAFC ? I know if I'm chasing this number might as well upgrade to PFC but just curious as to what's the limit of stock ecu.

[paulr33]

intake temp is also 53deg which is fairly high. what air intake setup do you have? you can make 250rwkw with stock ecu remapped and a larger turbo but not with stocker turbo. with the same mods and powerfc youll make 200rwkw but the tune will be very aggressive and spot on. it will be a dream to drive and it will feel strong all the way through the rev range.

based on the graph its looks like the tuner has to juggle the load points around too much with the safc and the stock ecu trying to control stuff.

heres a powerfc rb25 with basically the same mods

http://members.dodo.com.au/paul/pics/dyno/...r33-193rwkw.jpg

sure it makes 8 or 9rwkw less but you can see the graph is strong all the way through and i have stacks more average power. from 130km/h to 170km/h i have pretty much the same power

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

never heard of the manifold causing a car to ping.. but i have seen the std log style manifold running over 250 rwkw. so that wouldn't be causing it..

seems that Hitmans tune was a bit better than the recent one too. since the power curve is alot smoother. and still alot of fuel up top to keep it safe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Hitman's tune was done earlier when installing SAFC, the one with Power Tune was purely a power run. Ye I'm also not sure how can the curve look so crap after 2 mths without even touching the tune.

intake temp is also 53deg which is fairly high. what air intake setup do you have? you can make 250rwkw with stock ecu remapped and a larger turbo but not with stocker turbo. with the same mods and powerfc youll make 200rwkw but the tune will be very aggressive and spot on. it will be a dream to drive and it will feel strong all the way through the rev range.

based on the  graph its looks like the tuner has to juggle the load points around too much with the safc and the stock ecu trying to control stuff.

heres a powerfc rb25 with basically the same mods

http://members.dodo.com.au/paul/pics/dyno/...r33-193rwkw.jpg

sure it makes 8 or 9rwkw less but you can see the graph is strong all the way through and i have stacks more average power. from 130km/h to 170km/h i have pretty much the same power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have the stock air box with the front snorkle taken out due to fmic. Intake temp was high with Hitman's tune coz he dynoed it with the bonnet closed. You r right Paul with PFC it would definitely drive less jerky as it is now. And I wouldnt be worry about the difference btw top ends of PFC and SAFC unless the turbo isnt stock. Can the PFC fix the pinging problem?

[race_snooze]

shouldnt ping heres mine with stock turbo and remapped ECU

http://image-cache.skylinesaustralia.com/f...-1128947661.jpg

[The Mafia]

if the tuner is telling you its pinging because of the exhaust manifold, then I'd finding another tuner. Thats a crock of shit.

I made 210rwkw on a stock turbo with a powerfc etc.

12psi is pretty high for a stocker, and pretty mcuh its limit before it turns itself into a big heat pump, and starts the detonation.

[GunMetalR33]

Ye I'm also not sure how can the curve look so crap after 2 mths without even touching the tune.

Try re-setting your ecu, it might be trying to overcome the changes made through the SAFC over time. When your car pings the stock ecu also retards the timing.

[paulr33]

The Hitman's tune was done earlier when installing SAFC, the one with Power Tune was purely a power run. Ye I'm also not sure how can the curve look so crap after 2 mths without even touching the tune.

I have the stock air box with the front snorkle taken out due to fmic. Intake temp was high with Hitman's tune coz he dynoed it with the bonnet closed. You r right Paul with PFC it would definitely drive less jerky as it is now. And I wouldnt be worry about the difference btw top ends of PFC and SAFC unless the turbo isnt stock. Can the PFC fix the pinging problem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you should look at a proper cold air intake as it will be sucking it hot air (ive got the same problem). theres a fairly big different in driveability stock ecu vs powerfc. once you have all the load points in the powerfc maps tuned it's like a whole new car. the dyno graph doesnt do its justice really. as all you are (and everyone else for that matter) looking for is max power. id rather have a little less max power and stacks more average power and have awesome drivability and snappy throttle response

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

shouldnt ping heres mine with stock turbo and remapped ECU

http://image-cache.skylinesaustralia.com/f...-1128947661.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's very good power with stock turbo, was it running out of puff at the end? Is hat tuner in NSW?

if the tuner is telling you its pinging because of the exhaust manifold, then I'd finding another tuner. Thats a crock of shit.

I made 210rwkw on a stock turbo with a powerfc etc.

12psi is pretty high for a stocker, and pretty mcuh its limit before it turns itself into a big heat pump, and starts the detonation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasnt going the for a tune, it was like a dyno competition. But ye he probably doesnt know about R33 manifold's limit. I know 12 psi from most ppl say is the limit for stock turbo but if it can still flow more then may be it isnt stock right??

Try re-setting your ecu, it might be trying to overcome the changes made through the SAFC over time. When your car pings the stock ecu also retards the timing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thx for mentioning that, I'll give it a try. Looks like the stock ECU wasnt trying to "adapt" to change but instead making it run worst . . .

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

you should look at a proper cold air intake as it will be sucking it hot air (ive got the same problem). theres a fairly big different in driveability stock ecu vs powerfc. once you have all the load points in the powerfc maps tuned it's like a whole new car. the dyno graph doesnt do its justice really. as all you are (and everyone else for that matter) looking for is max power. id rather have a little less max power and stacks more average power and have awesome drivability and snappy throttle response

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats right it could also be the hot air that holding it back/pinging. But I'm having the stock air box now and most custom cold air box are made for pods. Air there any box out there that is made for panelt filters?

[paulr33]

12psi isnt really a limit. its more of a theoritical limit. the heat associated with running 12psi will cause the stocker exhaust wheel on the turbo to basically fail, thus the turbo dies. that being said 12psi on a cold night might be ok but 12psi on a hot summers may soar the intake temps up and generate lots more heat. its not a "fixed psi limit" like most poeple think. and because mr xyz can run 12psi on his r33 series2 and it doesnt die doesnt mean you can do the same and it will be exactly the same, as it wont. a tune can greatly affect the exhaust temps, thus affecting the temp on the exhaust wheel.

if you arent sure if its a stocker turbo or not take off the airflow meter to turbo ducting and look at the turbo inlet and housing. it should have oem hitatchi markings and v42.5 or somthing to that affect

[paulr33]

you can get hiflow panel filters to suit the stock airbox, which are great

[race_snooze]

That's very good power with stock turbo, was it running out of puff at the end? Is hat tuner in NSW?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No the tuner is in Japan Nerve Essential ECU remap, just started to drop off at 7k

If mine was pinging and the were saying that its the stock manifold tell that there are plenty of gtst's running the 300rwkw mark and above with t04 so go find a new person.

Good luck with it.

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

you can get hiflow panel filters to suit the stock airbox, which are great

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers, I'll look that up

No the tuner is in Japan Nerve Essential ECU remap, just started to drop off at 7k

If mine was pinging and the were saying that its the stock manifold tell that there are plenty of gtst's running the 300rwkw mark and above with t04 so go find a new person.

Good luck with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your ur stock ecu is remapped in Japan how can it be tuned to aust fuel and other things? I wish mine could have bonus like ecu when it was imported here, well at least I hope the turbo is.

[paulr33]

jap tuned ecu's are not always good, like the mines remapped ones. as they are tuned on jap RON fuel counts and and can't alter / edit them without mines software so its basically useless. cant sell it for much either as nobody can use it properly

[race_snooze]

for some reason mine runs well as seen on the graph, that was for a dyno day here in Canberra. Maybe someone retuned it here before i got it.

Good luck post up how you go getting this sorted.

[Miller the hoon]

Hiflowed like mine

when they go in japan they will hiflow its cheaper

Gaps on plugs but i think you are pushing too much without the proper suport mods

we all like saying mine got 250rwkw 4 not many mods but you can stuff them up that way

(fuel systems and ecu at least)

take my advice turn your boost down too 10psi max

do it slowly and remember a dyno is not everything

james

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

for some reason mine runs well as seen on the graph, that was for a dyno day here in Canberra.  Maybe someone retuned it here before i got it.

Good luck post up how you go getting this sorted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thx, will keep updates.

Hiflowed like mine

when they go in japan they will hiflow its cheaper

Gaps on plugs but i think you are pushing too much without the proper suport mods

we all like saying mine got 250rwkw 4 not many mods but you can stuff them up that way

(fuel systems and ecu at least)

take my advice turn your boost down too 10psi max

do it slowly and remember a dyno is not everything

james

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ye dyno figures are just tuning guides but I'm having the boost down to 10 psi now. Hell even set at 12 psi the max when I floored it were only at 8 or 9 psi with my granny shifting. For daily driving expecially in summer I dont think anyone would constantly push their cars to that much boost in traffic.

So your car was hiflowed back in japan? I hope mine is . . .

Edited November 11, 2005 by JeeTeeEss25Tee