Project 12sec R33 GTST Daily Driver

[rev210]

In the interest of science, I'll keep going to the drag strip. Then the intercooler people can do likewise (as they already have anyway) and we can see who has the quicker time. That sounds pretty easy I reckon. I have 'hosed' quite a number of the fmic brigade on the street to back up my time (on private roads), so it's not just a drag strip phenomina.

[Jay95R33]

He he he, that's true - people should go to the strip

What I'm trying to take out is driver skill. Drag racing on the strip does take a fair bit of driver skill, so if we can take out that we can have a true comparison between cars.

Anyone can mash the go peddal at 70 and hold it flat to 140. But getting someone (Mr Joe Bloggs) to launch good is another thing.

[Blitz]

Originally posted by rev210

BYBY,

I am taking 200+rwkw to be about 310HP at the flywheel. I dont think the stock turbo can move this much air at 1bar. At least why would you go a 2530 for a power increase when they are rated at about 310/20 HP?

Well, the fact is it can. As has been proven many many times over

[rev210]

I should add the beatings occur on 'standing' and 'rolling' runs with said other skyines with stock turbos and fmic's.

My advice if you have a fmic and a stock turbo is : run 1.5bar through the stockie and have some (brief) fun, then replace it with a turbo that is propperly matched to the horsepower flow of the intercooler. It's just like porting the heads, port to big for a little cam and carby and things don't work all that well in the response department.

I'd say there are lots of people running fmic designed to flow over 450HP! that is not a huge intercooler BTW, but boy is there a difference between 300HP and 450HP in air flow. For a front mount to work well, and I think they possibly can on a stock turbo, you need one that juuust flows well enough to 300HP or maybe a snick under.

[rev210]

BYBY,

show me an 'engine' dyno of the stock (unmodified) turbo making 310HP and I'll give you the points.

310HP or so in an R33 is mid 12 1/4mile, I don't think so. Unless you can show me a 12.5 sec stock turbo'd R33, don't care if its got slicks or runs on rocket fuel BTW. Once again I'll give you the points if you can.

[Jay95R33]

Rev - Please, don't get me wrong. Your car is a quick car, I don't dought that for a second.

What I'm trying to do is get a good (as equal as possible) comparison. Take out the variable of driver skill and make it based on car performance only.

I'm willing to wind down my boost to 10psi and do a few runs with a mate with a video camera in the car (on a track ).

I'm not trying to say mine is faster than yours, and going by the times you have, I have no dought that yours is quicker, but I'm just interested in the comparisons on the above test.

Like I said, just for interests sake.

J

[Blitz]

Why must you sway off the topic here. We are not discussing quarter mile times, obviously if you want to head down that road there are several other variables you must consider not jus tthe cars power. Power does not equal quarter mile time.

200rwkw is by no means whatsoever an unreachable figure. Plenty of people on here are hovering around the 200rwkw mark with the suggested modifications. If you want dyno sheets find them yourself. A number of the more reputable workshops in Sydney all give the same advice and confirm that the power level is possible although at 200rwkw or anything over your turbo is coming to its limit.

Perhaps you know more than Sydneys best tuners and performance shops.

Perhaps NOT

[rev210]

BYBY,

perhaps I think people have inflated views of dyno readouts. Thats all mate. I just think 310HP is a little more than the stock turbo can flow.

[Ustasa]

A interesting discussion here. I believe both sides of the argument have raised valid points. On the dyno, we have seen 2rismo’s car push out over 190rwkw on 11psi which is around 240kw (320 hp) at the crank. But the trouble is the turbo might go bang tomorrow or in 2 years time. You just don’t know with the ceramic turbines.

Rev - no one here discounts your achievements with the set up you got. Probably the best bang for buck skyline in the land. I honestly don’t know how your car achieves the terminal velocity it does on the modifications you have carried out. At first I thought you had a 50hp shot of nitrous lurking somewhere but other then that I wouldn’t believe what you are getting without the time slip. Well done

[rev210]

Originally posted by Ustasa

A interesting discussion here. I believe both sides of the argument have raised valid points. On the dyno, we have seen 2rismo’s car push out over 190rwkw on 11psi which is around 240kw (320 hp) at the crank. But the trouble is the turbo might go bang tomorrow or in 2 years time. You just don’t know with the ceramic turbines.  

All I am suggesting is that the stock turbo can not flow 320HP worth of air on the skyline motor as is. This is a real 320HP at the motor. That is quite alot of power in my books. I'd just like people to understand that the rear wheel dyno is for 'tuning' and is not a cross-comparable power/accelleration evaluator to bench mark every skyline on. However as I said before I am fine with being wrong on this one.

The dyno is a 'bragging' tool for sure... just doesn't mean much when you get your ass handed to you by someone who has 'less rear wheel horsepower' in the same weight car.

Good you have 200rwkw! Care factor for me... 0%

Wow you gained 30rwkw, though a mod on the same dyno & day! Care factor...80%

It's all relative so lets just race! :D

[turbomad]

Why wouldn't 320hp be achieveable at 12psi+ when standard they produce 250hp at around 7psi. A stock R33 makes roughly 130rwkw, if you mod it to 190rwkw thats a gain of 60kw or 80hp, now 250+80=330hp!

Another factor to consider with FMIC is that they will probably have a richer A/F ratio than with the stock IC due to the denser air, so without a SAFC or computer change then no they probably won't be better, but they DO NOT cause lag unless it's a poorly built one with huge pipes that have nasty right angle bends, then maybe.

While were on the discrepency's of Dyno's what about the accuracy of Drag strips, how do we know that your 13.4 104mph is correct? I've seen plenty of mid 13 sec passes and rarely do the mph go higher than 100-101, is there an altitude advantage in Perth compared to Melb or Sydney?

But I guess you should be commended in your different approach to speed, afterall the quicker your engine can reach redline the faster you will go, so maybe we should all experiment with lighter pulleys etc... a higher than 4.11 diff ratio could also lower 1/4 times but I doubt many would want to do that.

[rev210]

turbomad,

agree with you on the lag, I think you miss the point I am making (my fault , I don't state things clearly very often). The turbo will still produce boost at such and such rpm. How long does it take to get to that rpm, well thats where extra pipe work don't do you favours.

Drag strips are fairly accurate mate, after all it is a bona-fide sport . Unlike dyno printouts, where there are no officials and not a great deal of specators. Then again with the interest 'import' drivers have on dyno results perhaps we could make a sport out of it too.

The mph thing is like this ; gearing and traction can make the requirements for a higher mph less significant, try a 360ci V8 charger doing 13flat with a 100mph terminal. Or a 98mph 13.4 with a GTiR (4wd). Mph is significant when looking at a standardised gearing set and tyre setup, like a stock skyline ( diff and gearbox) running road tyres.

[MaTBoY]

Well Mz Merli and Mz Donnon, I think you should both sit in seperate corners and don a DUNCE hat each of you!........ See, I equate fighting over the internet the same as the 100m sprint at paralympics..... Sure one of you might win..... but at the end of the day your both still very very handicapped.......

[whatsisname]

Originally posted by MaTBoY

See, I equate fighting over the internet the same as the 100m sprint at paralympics..... Sure one of you might win..... but at the end of the day your both still very very handicapped.......

That'd be funny if I hadn't heard/read it a 100 times already

[MaTBoY]

bah! sure its old but it sums it up soooooo well

[diduc]

just my 2c..

shouldn't dyno reading be taken before and after mods?

eg Martin dyno's reading for his r34 was ~148rwkw stock then after mods, ~200rwkw?

Whereas my r33 gtst stock figure is around ~130rwkw, after mods, ~173rwkw.

alright feel free to take me down..

[Guest <NIS_02>]

Hey REV210, just curious why u dont run say, 14psi of boost??

Wouldnt it give u more power then 10psi??

[rev210]

Originally posted by diduc

just my 2c..

shouldn't dyno reading be taken before and after mods?

eg Martin dyno's reading for his r34 was ~148rwkw stock then after mods, ~200rwkw?  

Whereas my r33 gtst stock figure is around ~130rwkw, after mods, ~173rwkw.

alright feel free to take me down..

You are right. the figures don't mean much except the relative change in power. The outright figure I couldn't care much about, but the magnitude of the change is always worth a look.

The mods in both cases yielded an increase in power, thats good. However people ought not to get hung up on expecting the same power output, or power increase for the same mods on a different dyno on a different day.

[rev210]

Plan A complete.

Plan B underway: Negun is supplying HKS exhaust cam gear in about 14days.

[rev210]

maybe a plan b2 is the R34GTT cooler if I can find one for the price of a carton.