Project 12sec R33 GTST Daily Driver

[Crimmo]

Im interested in how you got to where you are and not spending massive amounts of money. Could you give me a run down of your cars mods please

[Merli]

Traction problems are the bane of all GTS-t owners, especially those making decent power

I think after you go past a certain power level, there really is nothing you can do on street tyres. Nitto NT555Rs perhaps, but slicks to do it properly.

For all those who whinge and say "Buh, it's a street car, you should run it on street tyres"... I understand where you're coming from, but your car is not making enough power for it to be an issue. If it were, you would know why slicks are necessary.

There is a point where street tyres are useless. 600rwkw in a RWD car, of course you're going to have to use slicks. 160rwkw, you won't. Somewhere between the two, is a line where street tyres become futile for drags.

Anyway, that's an AWESOME mph Matt!

Congratulations!

[Guest MFX_R33]

Well done Matt. Great effort.

Jeff.

[matlowth]

Thanks guys - I'm just glad to finally get it out to the track and have a time to work on! Bring on the nitto's and bring on the 11's!

You're right about traction problems though - even after doing a burnout in staging, I had f#$k all grip (or boost) till 3rd gear. My best run I was actually slipping the clutch all the way through second gear so I could load up the engine to get boost... Otherwise it would bog down on the change into 2nd and 3rd... It was spinning into 4th at 160 which is certainly exiting

matt

[whatsisname]

First things first mate - TOP BLOODY EFFORT Matty! Like Andrew said, that mph is awesome.

Forget all other road rubber & go with NT555R's. If you can't get the power down till 3rd then it's either Nittos or slicks for you (see Andrews comments below).

I don't know if the clutch I went with is going to last very long with the power your car is making? It has a claimed 600hp on it though. I'm not sure exactly what the pressure plate is rated at with the off-the-shelf version but I requested ~1100kg (this was too much for my master/slave cylinders so they needed to be O/H'd). It's a little on/off but still very easy to live with. I've not stalled the car since fitting it Most importantly I haven't had it slip even after a few hard launches (1 on the strip the rest on the street).

Here's a link to the clutch kit on Tim's site http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/mall/ck06.asp

Here's the straight button version - http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/mall/ck05.asp

Some of the forum guys are talking a group buy on the HIAB cushion button (same one as mine). It retails for $750, Tim will do it for $730 & group buy less again.

Do a search on “clutch” & you should find a few threads on the ACS/Xtreme clutch (HIAB kit)

Cheers,

Matt

[Merli]

If you guys are interested, I ordered a pair of Nitto NT555Rs in 245/50/16 from the states.

They're brand new, and cost me $675.20 for the pair, which is an AWESOME mates rates price.

I'm in the process of selling my GTS-t, so I'm willing to sell these tyres to one of you guys if you want them...

I also have two R32 GTR rims (16x8) in perfect condition that I was going to mount the Nittos on. I bought these for $500.

If you guys are interested, drop me an email at [email protected]

[matlowth]

Matt, heh thanks - I was a bit worried going out that the car wouldn't live up to expectations. But after a 13.1 first run, I ran 12.7-12.9 fairly consistantly with my 2nd last run being the best, and the final well... slipping...

600hp is all my cars making anyways, so I'm guessing that it'd probably do the job... Up till now, the car has had only a full faced organic in it, so I'm not in any hurry to put a twin plate etc in as I don't want to risk the gearbox.

Merli, you have email

matt

[R31Nismoid]

yeah... on the issue of street tyres being useful/useless.

R31's suffer from grip problems too

same as a 33... if you have a 33 engine that is

I think once you come to the 250rwkw + your really gonna start to push the limits where by you'll probably go slower than when you had less power as you could get it to ground far easier (and safer)

i've got 190rwkw and i can now skate the whole of second if i'm quick to the change, so once i get boost and get prob around 250rwkw i think it's gonna start to get to the stage where power just cancel's out grip entirely.

Excuse the ignorance... Are these nitto's better than semi comp's ?? The look more of a 'street' style tread more so that semi's.

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, there is always a lot of talk about not being able to get the power to the ground. Tyres crop up from time to time, but hardley anyone talks about suspension set up.

I did a proper rear wheel alignment and geometry set up on R33 GTS late last year and it was 0.5 second faster over the 1/4 with the same power, tyres, weight etc. I did not change the springs or the dampers, just got the wheels pointing where they should be.

I see lots of Skylines that are too low, have too much negative camber, too much drive shaft angle, too hard a spring rate, not enough rebound damping etc.

It has been my experience that most Japanese road/track suspension kits have way too high a spring rate in the rear for a drag car. The dampers have too much bump rate and not enough rebound, result is lots of axle tramp.

If you are serious about getting a quick 1/4 time, then make sure your suspension is set up for it. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time forking out big bucks for power you can't use.

After adjustments the R33 GTST geometry looked like this;

Front

wheel centre to guard – 355 mm

RH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

RH Caster – 5.5 degrees positive

LH Caster – 6.0 degrees positive

Toe – out 1.0 mm each side

Rear

wheel centre to guard – 340 mm

RH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

Toe – in 0.0 mm each side

Hope that stimulates some discussion.

[Jay95R33]

Originally posted by Sydneykid

After adjustments the R33 GTST geometry looked like this;

Front  

wheel centre to guard – 355 mm

RH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

RH Caster – 5.5 degrees positive

LH Caster – 6.0 degrees positive

Toe – out 1.0 mm each side

Rear  

wheel centre to guard – 340 mm

RH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

Toe – in 0.0 mm each side

SydneyKid - thanks for those figures - I'll be using them in about a month or so when I change my suspension

Just a quick question. Are these settings suitable for normal street driving, and will using these settings sacrifice handling in the twisties badly at all???

I just thought I'd ask cause I thought it was normal to have toe in on the front, not toe out..

Thanks

Jayson

[matlowth]

Thanks for those figures, that'll come in handy next time I race

how did it help your 60' times?

matt

[R31Nismoid]

hhmm... Sydney kid...

do you know a Melbourne Kid (j/k) at all that knows this sorta stuff???

Cause the R31 is different i would say and i do know that suspension plays a just as important part as the tyres, but then finding someone that REALLY knows, and doesn't just say they know, isn't easy.

[whatsisname]

I've already gone to the trouble of aligning the rear camber as neutral as possible. I've lost count of the aligning sessions to get a good set up for road & strip. And I've fitted grippy rear rubber.

Originally posted by Sydneykid

Hi guys, there is always a lot of talk about not being able to get the power to the ground.  Tyres crop up from time to time, but hardley anyone talks about suspension set up.

I did a proper rear wheel alignment and geometry set up on R33 GTS late last year and it was 0.5 second faster over the 1/4 with the same power, tyres, weight etc.  I did not change the springs or the dampers, just got the wheels pointing where they should be.

I see lots of Skylines that are too low, have too much negative camber, too much drive shaft angle, too hard a spring rate, not enough rebound damping etc.

It has been my experience that most Japanese road/track suspension kits have way too high a spring rate in the rear for a drag car.  The dampers have too much bump rate and not enough rebound, result is lots of axle tramp.

If you are serious about getting a quick 1/4 time, then make sure your suspension is set up for it.  Otherwise you are simply wasting your time forking out big bucks for power you can't use.

After adjustments the R33 GTST geometry looked like this;

Front  

wheel centre to guard – 355 mm

RH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 1.0 degrees negative

RH Caster – 5.5 degrees positive

LH Caster – 6.0 degrees positive

Toe – out 1.0 mm each side

Rear  

wheel centre to guard – 340 mm

RH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

LH Camber – 0.0 degrees negative

Toe – in 0.0 mm each side

Hope that stimulates some discussion.

[Merli]

Originally posted by Sydneykid

Hi guys, there is always a lot of talk about not being able to get the power to the ground.  Tyres crop up from time to time, but hardley anyone talks about suspension set up.

I completely agree with you.

Unfortunately compromises must be made. I MUCH prefer circuit racing to drag racing, and as such, my car has hard coilovers, thick sway bars and alignment set for optimal cornering.

I'm not willing to put 90/10 suspension in the car just to get that squat and launch, because....... I guess that goes against what I want the car for.

I'm happy to extract the best times possible out of my circuit racing setup, and realise that much better launches and 60 footers can be achieved with proper drag racing suspension, but I'm just not that serious about drag racing.

For those who are serious about their straight line times, SydneyKid has provided priceless information :uh-huh: Cheers!

But 90% track, 10% drags is my motto

[matlowth]

Merli,

I agree with you there spot on! My car was built as it is to be a quick street car/circuit car, as such, it's got harder suspension which is good for the twisties... If it can pull a quick time at the drags, I guess that's just a nice bonus!

I think the skylines make a shitty base for a drag car... They're just too heavy.

matt

[Guest MFX_R33]

I'm with you two. I have a similar setup for circuit, as we go down to Wakefield on a regular basis. Although the car has just come off the road again to be stripped and rebuilt again. I suppose my car is show first, then circuit, then drag .

Jeff.

[whatsisname]

My car is set up for a bit of everything too. Jack of all trades, master of none

[benm]

so you wont be at E.C Drags tomorrow night Jeff ?

[Guest MFX_R33]

Nah, Benm. I wanted to go this week to Eastern and try for a 12, but I need all the time I can get before Adelaide Auto Salon. The car will be completely redone, kit, body, respray, re-airbrushed, and I only have 8 weeks!!!

Jeff.

[benm]

and looking outside (and watching the tv forecast) its sposed to rain for the next 7 days so i doubt E.C will even be on