Consult Interfaces & Software

[ferni]

Dumb question - Does the consult interface still work if you have a PowerFC?

[paulr33]

it does not

[NewKleer]

ferni - no it doesnt. google fclogit (not sure on spelling). not sure whether u need a special interface for it or not.

sorry caz, my comment was based on the developers decision to sell it for that amount, not you as a reseller.

"workshop quality, highly developed" is just marketing spin. if id decided to make interfaces for the purposes of assembling them to sell, rather than the diy kit for 50, then i would have gone smd and could add "workshop quality" and "highly developed" in blinking lights, but that was never my intention, which was from the start to make an easy to assemble interface to make it easy for those who couldnt justify the cost or afford a pre-made one. of course it will look "home made", as most people will make it at home! the only difference is that it had to be made with normal sized, thru-hole components otherwise it wouldnt be too easy to solder if it was all smd. (btw you got the numbers wrong. 70 inc postage vs 105 inc postage, but like you say they fit different purposes).

i have no problems giving credit where its due - im quite pleased to see your group buy for the usb ones at a good price, theres no point in getting one of mine assembled if you have a usb only laptop now you have your group buy, and ive said as much in my assembled interface thread. do the same for the serial ones, and ill be able to spend all my time on the software (unless you want to convince the developers theyd make more money if they priced it at a level more people would be willing to pay)

anyway i think theres been enough crapping on this thread

Peter

Edited December 4, 2005 by NewKleer

[Sydneykid]

1. But the best bit is that I can make adjustments to my fuel and ign timing  and store them in 1 of 3 macros    I just tap the mac1,2 or 3 on the digital dash and the preset tune activates. Got me an extra 18rw/kw on street boost (11psi)

2. I can also fine tune those depending on the weather, track conditions or what Im doing  .

3. Its also been a safety net for me twice now.....got stuck having to use 95ron fuel which normally has my car pinging like mad, I  retarded the timing which stopped the detonation, till I could get some full strength fuel.

4. The other time I got stuck in traffic on 35 deg day...my car was getting hot, she doesn't like no air flow, so once again I was able to retard timing a few deg and this time I dumped some more fuel in just until I could stretch her legs and cool her down.

5. And now the developer is writing the software to tune the stock ecu in blocks with a PDA

Caz...

I have a few questions;

1. What ECU versions does this work on?

2. Are you using an on board A/F ratio meter for this or just guessing?

3. Couldn't you have just retarded the CAS? Or driven at lower boost via the throttle?

4. Retarding the ignition timing increases the temperature, adding more fuel was a better idea.

5. What ECU versions does this work on?

cheers

[NewKleer]

consult supports active tests where you can adjust fuel injection time (a percentage of normal, eg 95%, 110% across entire rev range) and static ignition timing (essentially same as changing cas, but no effort required ), which should be supported on most ecu's that support consult.

check out nissan datascan webpage (screenshots) as it lists most of the common active tests there (http://home.curl.aunz.net/tpkolo/DataScan.htm). i think maybe scantech nissan (or some version of it?) can do active tests also, but not many other free software does.

after i get gauges done, active tests would be next on the list for my software.

as part of my last year uni project next year im aiming to make a monitoring/tuning device that will let you map out adjustments to fuel injection time as a function of some inputs (not sure whats best, combination of RPM and AFM voltage i guess?) and ign timing if i have the time. essentially a plug and play AFC, but with the advantage of not messing up your ign timing when u change fuel injection time. i assume this is similar to what caz is referring to by "in blocks". id probably write similar stuff into my desktop/pocketpc app first in order to test before doing it on a hardware/lcd etc level.

however theres a few problems - serial comms to the ecu could potentially be interuppted, which could mean you get "stuck" with a certain value (eg leaning out a rich top end) which is then applied to whole rev range. likewise for timing adjustments. theory behind 100% safe tuning to deal with that would then be another page or so, and i need to get back to work

but certainly, exciting to think of the possibilities

Edited December 5, 2005 by NewKleer

[caz]

Hey Sydneykid,

Answers to your questions...

1. this works with the same range of Nissans referred to in this thread. That is most performance Nissans between 1989 and 1997, the ones with the OBD1 port.Basically if you have this consult port it will work...

Chipped Nissan ECU's and piggyback systems are fine too.

2. I presume the A/F ratio question refers to adjusting my injector timing. This is one of the reasons this system is not for the casual/non serious user.....just you asking me about on board A/F ratio meters tells me you know a bit about your car and the 'dangers' of leaning out.

I trialled and tested this system for over 6 mths and some of that testing was done on a dyno...I know from that what my bottom line is for how much fuel I can trim safely and what setting(ignition and fuel) combo gave best power delivery.

I know my car very well, and always keep a safety margin. The monitoring on ecuXtend gives me lots of info on how she's coping with whatever I do.

3. Retard the CAS?? Id have to get out of the car and get on the tools in traffic! hahahaa... I wasnt going fast enough to boost...that was the problem and I couldnt get out of the lineup...it was Wollongong Harbour on a public Hol=carpark.

4.Retarding my ignition timing certainly helps with detonation in a situation like that.

5. trick question?? same answer as question 1!

Cheers,

Caz...

I have a few questions;

1. What ECU versions does this work on?

2. Are you using an on board A/F ratio meter for this or just guessing?

3. Couldn't you have just retarded the CAS?  Or driven at lower boost via the throttle?

4. Retarding the ignition timing increases the temperature, adding more fuel was a better idea.

5. What ECU versions does this work on?

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited December 5, 2005 by caz

[Scooby]

4. Retarding the ignition timing increases the temperature, adding more fuel was a better idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought advancing ign increases temp?

[Sydneykid]

Hey Sydneykid,

Answers to your questions...

1. this works with the same range of Nissans referred to in this thread. That is most performance Nissans between 1989 and 1997, the ones with the OBD1 port.Basically if you have this consult port it will work...

Chipped Nissan ECU's and piggyback systems are fine too.

2. I presume the A/F ratio question refers to adjusting my injector timing. This is one of the reasons this system is not for the casual/non serious user.....just you asking me about on board A/F ratio meters tells me you know a bit about your car and the 'dangers' of leaning out.

I trialled and tested this system for over 6 mths and some of that testing was done on a dyno...I know from that what my bottom line is for how much fuel I can trim safely and what setting(ignition and fuel) combo gave best power delivery.

  I know my car very well, and always keep a safety margin. The monitoring on ecuXtend gives me lots of info on how she's coping with whatever I do.

3. Retard the CAS??  Id have to get out of the car and get on the tools in traffic! hahahaa... I wasnt going fast enough to boost...that was the problem and I couldnt get out of the lineup...it was Wollongong Harbour on a public Hol=carpark.

4.Retarding my ignition timing certainly helps with detonation in a situation like that.

5. trick question?? same answer as question 1!   

Cheers,

Caz... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Caz, I am more confused than ever, let me have another go;

1. You make a change to the injector opening via the Consult port and it is permanent? In say a 1996 R33GTST S11? I thought changes via the Consult port were temporary (NewKleer uses the term "active test") and you loose them when you turn of the ignition.

2. So you don't have on board A/F ratio monitoring, what about knock monitoring? If so, how is that achieved?

3. That'll teach you not to do laps of the lighthouse.

4. Detonation yes, overheating no. Retarding the ignition timing moves the combustion process to later in the cycle, this means more heat is passed into the water jacket particulary around the exhaust port. Which is a hot area, hence the high concentration of water jacketting. The EGT is a dead give away, as is the water temp.

I would have thought that idlng in traffic would be closed loop running, hence stoich A/F ratios. So to richen it up you would have had go out of closed loop, is that temporary (lost when you turn the igntion off) or a permanent change? If it is permanent, you can do it via the Consult port?

5. Wasn't really meanto be a trick question, it was about the software versions and hardware (chip) changes and what (if any) were necessary to achieve permanent changes?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that's what I created this thread for, to exchange ideas on uses of the Consult Port and the software available for doing so.

cheers

[NewKleer]

no changes (or active tests) are permanent, thus the software would apply them each time the vehicle is turned on. theres no way to get permanent changes in a plug and play manner (pt 5.) and as such any software or device would have to reapply the settings on startup.

one thing that may cause a problem with a change to fuel injection width (ie what ecuxtend does atm, likewise running active tests with any consult software) is that the ecu will have to (attempt to) learn around the change (it might not be successful, depends how far they can learn around things) to get back to stoich. guess this isnt much different to a AFM interceptor, but that can be mapped so that it doesnt change idle/low loads.

Edited December 6, 2005 by NewKleer

[Sydneykid]

no changes (or active tests) are permanent, thus the software would apply them each time the vehicle is turned on. theres no way to get permanent changes in a plug and play manner (pt 5.) and as such any software or device would have to reapply the settings on startup.

one thing that may cause a problem with a change to fuel injection width (ie what ecuxtend does atm, likewise running active tests with any consult software) is that the ecu will have to (attempt to) learn around the change (it might not be successful, depends how far they can learn around things) to get back to stoich. guess this isnt much different to a AFM interceptor, but that can be mapped so that it doesnt change idle/low loads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, so what we need is a "box" that stores the updated stuff and dumps it to the ECU, everytime the engine is turned on, via the Consult port. I can tune the ECU on the dyno/road via the lap top, then store that in the "box". The "box" doesn't have to be that smart or fast, as long as it has finished updating the ECU by the time I have driven out of my driveway, that would be good.

Sounds simple, so can you electronics tech heads get on with it please.

cheers

[NewKleer]

a simple thing like that would just be leaning/richening out over whole rev range (and likewise for ign timing) so u would have to limit yourself to an adjustment that wont stuff up any part of the rev range (ie, if ur car is leaning out top end, and you use that top end in driving, then u cant really do much). however if u have a solid 10/11:1 over top end of rev range all the way, and can live with leaned mixtures bottom end it might be ok. caz said 18rwkw from it, so presumably the leaning out lower/very top end wasnt an issue, but essentially depends on the AFR graph and how varying it is. eg going from 12:1 to 10:1 from 5k->6k means if u want to lean out the 6k to 12, ur 5k will be upwards of 13-14.

obviously wouldnt be much use if your running a dfa (though u could zero ur dfa for purposes of testing it out)

active tests is next on my software after fixing the gauges a bit (might leave the gauges looking a bit dodgy for time being so i can play with the active tests).

i dont have a consult capable car yet so cant really test anything i do out too well till i do. do u have nissan datascan? if so u can have a play with the active tests yourself

Edited December 6, 2005 by NewKleer

[ebola]

Impatience is killing me, but my r32 gts-4 should clear customs this week.

when its here, I could have a play for you... especially if you send source code (though I would understand if you don't want to). I presume its C... ?

I have some ideas about 'tuning' via the consult port. Including a 'choose your tune' button

[NewKleer]

doubt id ever release source code, just cause theres a chance that if i do a good enough job, someone could just make (and sell) their own program from it. not ready to pass on actual executable code yet either. i have a sr20 ecu ive used for testing, but the active test things, while they should work in theory, wont be able to test unless i have a car (although my sister has a pulsar which i can use)

doing it in .net, and doing it such that a lot of code between pocketpc version and desktop version would be common, hence similar things would be available to both (just a matter of working out how to structure it on a pda screen given how small it is)

[caz]

Hi Sydneykid...NEVER be sorry for asking questions...exchanging and discussing what we know is how we learn more about what we're doing.

The software allows you to store 3 'tunes' (ignition and fuel timing setting) in 'macros', recalled from the 'digital dash' screen, see...PS1 PS2 PS3 down the left side , under those you can see the details of the selected tune...

http://www.photodump.com/viewer/Caz1/11-18...;53;36PM11.html

F =fuel /T = +or- ignition timing/ S = shift light 'set at' RPM

The software has a self learn overide/cut feature so that you car will not 'self learn'back to default. So as long as the PDA is in the car (and 'ON' obviously), your ecu will operate to the tune/macro that you have selected. If none are selected or your PDA isnt in the car, your ecu reverts to factory default settings. That feature means the system is 'yours' to keep...you dont loose the investment if you sell your car.

The settings are simple to adjust, and you can adjust them on the fly...BUT YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!! A cowboy can kill his engine very quickly messing with fuel and timing. I didnt adjust my settings until I had a play with them on the Dyno first....its new ground being able to do this with a Nissan ecu and I was testing a new product, my Zed engine is too precious to just wing it.

Gotta say it was pretty exciting to see what it could do power wise, not many performance products actually produce what they claim, see the A/F??

Hopefully the pics make it a bit easier to understand what it is.

The PDA is powered through the controller so it wont go flat and die!

My car is a Zed and the digital dash has 02's and the iPAQ monitoring has A/F alpha. I have a det sensor that will throw me into safety boost should it sence detonation. I wouldnt put my car that close to the edge though....on the dyno best power was made at +2 deg ign timing and 88% fuel which gave a steady 12 AFR right through. I therefore would not go below 88% fuel.

I've asked Santa for a wideband 02 setup.....dont think I'll get it tho (all that 'gotta be good' stuff, pffttt!)

3. Yeah, Mr Plod is trying to teach everyone not to....its been tradition for longer than I can remember....decades..for cars to gather at Wollongong lighthouse Australia Day and Anzac day hols. Everyone(well 99%) behaves-all nationalities-all different cars and passions-all together and all sweet with each other in one place. Very unique I think.

4. I was able to stop the detonation till I could get her some air....engine bay is gorgeous, love it full like that...but its a pain to keep cool on very hot days crawling in traffic.

Hmmm.. I still struggle with the 'closed loop' stuff... ..changes made are stored in the PDA macro's and are available when you start the car and the PDA is on. The macros overide the ecu's settings. Bit like a piggy back system in that regard I guess.

5. I meant it was a trick question because it was the same as question 1!!

This works with any OBD1 equipped Nissan. No chip change...just plug (or wire) into the consult port and thats it!. My ecu is chipped (jwt hybrid) thats not a problem, its only if you have full aftermarket management systems that do away with the consult port diagnostic system that you cant use it....

Im only at Thirroul and often at Motorsport events so if you want to have a play with it in either my car or your own just give me a yell. Im a performance head waaay before Im a sales person.

Im at WSID tomorrow night, Eastern Creek Skidpan Sunday 11th and DragWarz on the 17th.

Kind Regards,

Caz..

Hi Caz, I am more confused than ever, let me have another go;

1. You make a change to the injector opening via the Consult port and it is permanent?  In say a 1996 R33GTST S11?  I thought changes via the Consult port were temporary (NewKleer uses the term "active test") and you loose them when you turn of the ignition.

2. So you don't have on board A/F ratio monitoring, what about knock monitoring?  If so, how is that achieved?

3. That'll teach you not to do laps of the lighthouse.

4. Detonation yes, overheating no.  Retarding the ignition timing moves the combustion process to later in the cycle, this means more heat is passed into the water jacket particulary around the exhaust port.  Which is a hot area, hence the high concentration of water jacketting.  The EGT is a dead give away, as is the water temp.

I would have thought that idlng in traffic would be closed loop running, hence stoich A/F ratios.  So to richen it up you would have had go out of closed loop, is that temporary (lost when you turn the igntion off) or a permanent change?  If it is permanent, you can do it via the Consult port?

5. Wasn't really meanto be a trick question, it was about the software versions and hardware (chip) changes and what (if any) were necessary to achieve permanent changes?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that's what I created this thread for, to exchange ideas on uses of the Consult Port and the software available for doing so.

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[caz]

Hey NewKleer,

The software doesnt allow the self learn to alter the changes, its written into the program somehow...

My dyno graph shows how my car coped with the changes made.....I couldnt have been happier with the A/F, nice and steady...even as she reached peak power.

Caz..

no changes (or active tests) are permanent, thus the software would apply them each time the vehicle is turned on. theres no way to get permanent changes in a plug and play manner (pt 5.) and as such any software or device would have to reapply the settings on startup.

one thing that may cause a problem with a change to fuel injection width (ie what ecuxtend does atm, likewise running active tests with any consult software) is that the ecu will have to (attempt to) learn around the change (it might not be successful, depends how far they can learn around things) to get back to stoich. guess this isnt much different to a AFM interceptor, but that can be mapped so that it doesnt change idle/low loads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[caz]

Unusual way to put it but thats ecuXtend....just do away with the laptop bit...all on PDA.

OK, so what we need is a "box" that stores the updated stuff and dumps it to the ECU, everytime the engine is turned on, via the Consult port.  I can tune the ECU on the dyno/road via the lap top, then store that in the "box".  The "box" doesn't have to be that smart or fast, as long as it has finished updating the ECU by the time I have driven out of my driveway, that would be good.

Sounds simple, so can you electronics tech heads get on with it please.

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited December 6, 2005 by caz

[NewKleer]

the ecu wont learn around the open loop stuff (ie, power region) so thats not a problem, but u probably do want it to learn around the closed loop region (idle, cruising). the "learning" aspect of the ECU is limited to the closed loop operationg only, so theres not much chance that your settings will be learned around by ECU (except idle/cruise where u want to be at 14.7:1). so in the end, i guess its not much of an issue after all.

[Sydneykid]

I think I am finally getting it;

1. You had a chiped ECU that had a nice flat 10 to 1 A/F ratio, so you just took 12% fuel out of it everywhere to get to 12 to 1.

2. If you had a standard ECU in a boost increased (say to 10 psi) Skyline it wouldn't work, because the A/F ratios are all over the place. Because you can only apply one correction factor for all load points.

3. I assume the chipped ignition timing map was similarly close, so you just added 2 degrees advance everywhere.

4. If you had a standard ECU in a boost increased (say to 10 psi) Skyline it wouldn't work, because the igniton timing is all over the place. Because you can only apply one correction factor for all load points.

5. You have chipped mapping unless a PDA (or laptop) is plugged in. If (like me) you had a standard (unchipped) ECU you would have standard mapping unless a PDA (or laptop) is plugged in. The ECUXtend unit doesn't actually retain anything, it is simply an interface.

So I would have to have a PDA (or lapt top) just for using in my car, plus the ECUXtend unit. I already have a lap top, so how much does the ECUXtend cost?

One more question, how come you didn't just get the chipped ECU retuned?

cheers

[caz]

Hey Sydneykid,

You are waaay off.... I must really suck at explaining this clearly.

The chip in my ecu has only had the rev limiter lifted by 200rpm and the 180km/hr speed cut raised to 255km/hr. My ecu is standard in every other way.

the non ecuXtend AF is hardly flat, its up and down and then just gets richer and richer.

The dyno was done on street boost setting of 11psi. An R33 in Melb got a 15% power increase....more than mine because his car was manual.

Yes the changes are global, have always made that clear.

Timing maps are still full stock standard, the 2 degree's was added to the BASE timing..my ecu still works with it but accepts my change as base. Just like advancing your timing under the bonnet with the CAS....that works on a Skyline

It works brilliantly in Skylines, software was written by a Skyline owner!

5. I dont have altered mapping and EcuXtend doesnt change mapping, My car still functions within the boundries of my stock Nissan Maps.

EcuXtend is a software program that operates on a iPAQ/PDA...your PDA IS the Unit... Its your PDA that functions as a digital dash,monitor, diagnostics,tuner...ect ect once the software is on it and the round gauge looking unit contains a power supply for the PDA and information on what its doing as well as the shift light.

EcuXtend DOES retain 3 different tunes as explained a few posts up, unless I select a new one the setting my car was using when I turned it off will be the setting it has when I start her next.

My PDA still has ALL of my normal PDA functions...it is not just EcuXtend. When I leave the car I throw it in my bag. Same as i did before I had this ecuXtend software on it!!

I have the 'ecuXtend software program' on my PDA..maybe thats a clearer way to put it..

This is ONLY for PDA/iPAQ...

I dont know how to expain it any differently...it has nothing to do with ROM maps ..

I have 3 different stored/saved tunes available on my dash that I can choose from depending on what Im doing, different for circuit than drag...

Or I can make up my own to suit activity and weather.....I mess about with it at the drags for example, run about 90-92%fuel but +3 ign timing with octane boost, so long as track temps aren't too high.

See the install pic??? thats it.. interface cabling, connectors, gauge+ shift light, and the rest is software installed on your PDA. All done through your PDA.

You're getting me confused..LOL

Cheers,

Caz...

I think I am finally getting it;

1. You had a chiped ECU that had a nice flat 10 to 1 A/F ratio, so you just took 12% fuel out of it everywhere to get to 12 to 1.

2. If you had a standard ECU in a boost increased (say to 10 psi)  Skyline it wouldn't work, because the A/F ratios are all over the place.  Because you can only apply one correction factor for all load points.

3. I assume the chipped ignition timing map was similarly close, so you just added 2 degrees advance everywhere. 

4. If you had a standard ECU in a boost increased (say to 10 psi)  Skyline it wouldn't work, because the igniton timing is all over the place.  Because you can only apply one correction factor for all load points.

5. You have chipped mapping unless a PDA (or laptop) is plugged in.  If (like me) you had a standard (unchipped) ECU you would have standard mapping unless a PDA (or laptop) is plugged in.  The ECUXtend unit doesn't actually retain anything, it is simply an interface.

So I would have to have a PDA (or lapt top) just for using in my car, plus the ECUXtend unit.  I already have a lap top, so how much does the ECUXtend cost?

One more question, how come you didn't just get the chipped ECU retuned?

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[NewKleer]

with upgrading injectors, could you get away with, say going from 370cc->440cc injectors with just a leaning out of whole rev range via consult?

eg set fuel injection time to 84% (370/440). or the "opening time" of injectors may play a bit of a role here? but if the injectors behaviour is linear across rev range, then the linear change to fuel injection time via consult might be able to compensate for higher flow rate injectors? you probably wouldnt want to make too big a jump, but interesting nonetheless

by the way, i got myself a consult capable sr20det pulsar over the weekend, which will come handy