Choose 'the Right' Adventure

[Topaz]

I am gunna start increasing the horses of my GTR next year, currently 293hp with dump pipe, exhaust and pods (turbos as well, but I want to replace them with steel wheel turbos) and hoping for 500hp when I am done. This will be my project for as long as I have the car so I won't rush straight in and buy everything at once.

I have listed a huge engine mods list and was wondering if someone in the know could get it to include essentials to reach ~500hp. I'm assuming this list could be cut down dramatically to gain a measly extra ~200hp . What I am trying to find out is what the potential bottlenecks are when aiming for a figure.

This is a list of what I want to do for stage 1:

Power FC - APEXI

Cam Gears - TOMEI Adjustable

Timing Belt - TOMEI

Remote Oil Filter (not fuel filter, sorry)

List of extras to get me to ~500hp: (Seperated into possible stages)

AFM's - NISMO Z32 with TOMEI Z32 Adaptor (or D-Jetro PFC, leaning towards AFM's tho)

Injectors - SARD 700CC (700's it is then)

Spark Plugs - NGK (Gapped to 0.8, current gap unknown)

================

Fuel Pump - NISMO

Water Pump - R32 replacement

Oil Catch Can - GREDDY

================

Camshafts - TOMEI (IN260deg / EX260deg / L9.15mm)

Con Rods - TOMEI Forged H-beam (ARP Rod Bolts instead?!)

Turbos - HKS GT-SS Bolt-On Kit (Considering GT-2530's if I want more than 440hp)

================

Valve Springs - TOMEI (forget these)

Crankshaft - R33 GTR (forget this now)

Wastegate - HKS GT II (forget this now, using turbos with internal gates)

Fuel Rail - HKS (SARD's fit factory rail)

Balancer - ROSS 2 PIECE (not using 9000+, so forget it)

Oil Cooler (meh!, not using it for much track really, forget this)

All prices from Nengun or Unique Autosports (http://www.nismo.com.au)

The total price for the parts in that list is ~$16,000 which is well over my budget for modifying this car.

[fEkuaR]

for one spark plugs are hardley worthy of being on that list.... and what about pistons or you planning on doing a re-ring haha.

[Morgs]

GT-SS' will struggle to make 500awhp.

I'd also suggest $16K budget will struggle if you're going to be building the engine as many more details will need to be addressed in the build.

(Don't abuse me, just been there done that:) )

[blk180]

What the hell do you need an Wastegate - HKS GT II for lol

OK 500hp can be done on stock rods, forged pistons would go for the R33 crank new(jun sleeve and grub screwing is about $400+) cost about $1k will cost about 10k for engine plus R&R

[Tommyk]

Ill try and offer some advice, considering the fact that ive spent close to that, and have 500hp or more at the engine.

First of all, bear in mind, each time you add parts, you will need to tune the power FC. it wont run well, be it stock or modified unless you tune it. tuning costs money.

550cc injectors are too small. At the moment im at about 85% injector duty cycle on 700cc injectors.

Rather than go z32's, go the nismo bolt in afms. same price, but bolt up to stock box or 60mm pods

Remote fuel filter, or remote oil filter ?

Fuel pump is okay. water pump - should have been done at your 100k service. check to see how new the pump looks. the stock gtr one will be fine

oil catch can - get the greddy one from just jap - does the same job for half the price

Go the 260/260 cams

Valve springs - up to you. i havent changed mine yet

rods mean opening up the engine. if you are doing that, you may as well rebuild it with forgies, rods, rings, etc. That alone could cost you 8k

turbos - you will need 2530's or bigger to hit that power figure. my turbos arent too bad - garrett 2860r's

Wastegate ? what for

Fuel rail isnt necessary. sard's fit in the stock rail, you just need different o-rings (get them from repco)

Oil cooler - necessary for track work, or if you do a lot of driving around, particularly now that summer is here

balancer ? dunno

You also need to look at things like

clutch, tuning, labour, gauges, ebc, sump baffle, etc. There are lots of things to buy, but some of those you dont need for 500hp at the crank.

if you are looking at 500rw/awhp, then you need to spend a fair bit more if you want it to last.

And you will need something bigger than 2530's, unless you want to run 1.4 bar or more on the 2530's

[Topaz]

Ill try and offer some advice, considering the fact that ive spent close to that, and have 500hp or more at the engine.

--First of all, bear in mind, each time you add parts, you will need to tune the power FC. it wont run well, be it stock or modified unless you tune it. tuning costs money.

--550cc injectors are too small. At the moment im at about 85% injector duty cycle on 700cc injectors.

Rather than go z32's, go the nismo bolt in afms. same price, but bolt up to stock box or 60mm pods

--Remote fuel filter, or remote oil filter ?

--Fuel pump is okay. water pump - should have been done at your 100k service. check to see how new the pump looks. the stock gtr one will be fine

--oil catch can - get the greddy one from just jap - does the same job for half the price

--Go the 260/260 cams

--Valve springs - up to you. i havent changed mine yet

--rods mean opening up the engine. if you are doing that, you may as well rebuild it with forgies, rods, rings, etc. That alone could cost you 8k

--turbos - you will need 2530's or bigger to hit that power figure. my turbos arent too bad - garrett 2860r's

--Wastegate ? what for

--Fuel rail isnt necessary. sard's fit in the stock rail, you just need different o-rings (get them from repco)

--Oil cooler - necessary for track work, or if you do a lot of driving around, particularly now that summer is here

--balancer ? dunno

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remote Oil Filter, sorry...

Thanks Tommy, helps a lot for deciding what I don't need from that list.

I have a list of parts and repairs that were done by the previous owner which amount close to $8000. The main parts include the water pump replaced at about 85,000kms, and this lot at 93,000km's (which were part of a full engine rebuild) :

--Complete Gasket Set

--4X4 Heavy Duty Clutch

--All belts and fluids

--Machined flywheel and front brakes

--Iridium Spark Plugs

--Radiator top tank and thermostat

and he was constantly getting workshops to look it over and replace the fuel filter, oil filter, oil and coolant. Also when I had it dyno tested in June/July it ran a really smooth curve and the boost kicked in and held nicely where it should have at 11PSI

....how many PSI is 1.4bar?

What are 2530's worth?

What would be a safe boost level, in PSI, for R34 turbos?

cheers

Tom

[R32GTST]

Instead of AFMs why not go PFC DJetro? also might want to look at upgrading the oil pump aswell appears to be a must for big HP 26s.

[Topaz]

Instead of AFMs why not go PFC DJetro? also might want to look at upgrading the oil pump aswell appears to be a must for big HP 26s.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just looking at those on at Nengun as I looked at your post and they are the same price deleivered as the standard PFC ($941 del)

whats the Jetro got that the standard doesn't...obviously something to do with the AFM's?!

EDIT: oh, wait, its this right!

2 X Map Sensors

1 X Sensor Harness

2 X Nipples

[Tommyk]

Remote Oil Filter, sorry...

Thanks Tommy, helps a lot for deciding what I don't need from that list.

I have a list of parts and repairs that were done by the previous owner which amount close to $8000. The main parts include the water pump replaced at about 85,000kms, and this lot at 93,000km's (which were part of a full engine rebuild) :

--Complete Gasket Set

--4X4 Heavy Duty Clutch

--All belts and fluids

--Machined flywheel and front brakes

--Iridium Spark Plugs

--Radiator top tank and thermostat

and he was constantly getting workshops to look it over and replace the fuel filter, oil filter, oil and coolant. Also when I had it dyno tested in June/July it ran a really smooth curve and the boost kicked in and held nicely where it should have at 11PSI

....how many PSI is 1.4bar?

What are 2530's worth?

What would be a safe boost level, in PSI, for R34 turbos?

cheers

Tom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey

That sounds good. 2530's are worth around the 3-3.5k mark (but they dont make em anymore?). I would not go to gt-ss's, unless you want response. People on here are very happy with ss's but they wont give you the same kick in the pants a bigger set of turbos will.

R34 turbos (the non n1 spec) will only last up to a max of 1 bar. They have ceramic wheels. If you get the n1 spec r34's, they are good for 1.3/1.4 bar. They are smaller than 2530's, and might not get to your power figure.

I know the earlier 32's had a problem with the oil pump/crank collar or something, so you may need to invest in a solution to fix that problem. Bear in mind, that may involve taking the engine out.

Anyway i gotta get to work

[sewid]

I'd suggest the 2530's too I don't think the GT-SS's are what you want to reach 500hp. The R34 turbo's aren't much of an upgrade from the R32 turbos when you consider they still come with ceramic wheels.

You'll need to spend money on a clutch too - $900 - $2000 for a locally made single plate to a nismo twin.

[R31Nismoid]

500rwhp - your gonna need a set of pistons in there, which means rebuild to safely run 500/375rwkw safely.

Thats a going to come somewhere between 8-10k before you look @ turbos etc etc

Rods - stock ones are fine

Pistons - you'll need some

N1 Oil pump - as part of rebuild a good idea

Nismo AFM's, use the stock piping that way, even with GT-SS, so its a cost saving, AFM IMO is no restriction at all. Air is gonna get sucked regardless

33GTR crank - By a brand new one from Nissan, $1100. By the time you machine/mod a 32GTR crank etc etc it'll end up around the same anyway

GT-SS - wont make 500rwhp... closer too 440rwhp, extremely resonsive however. Perfect for a street GTR with occasional track.

Personally, settle for less power and have a response monster if its a daily.

I say settle for less because you make no mention of brakes or suspension etc. For 500rwhp, stock 32-R brakes are not safe IMO. There is another few thousand

Fuel rail - no need

Balancer - no need (you aint running 11ty billion rpm on a stock crank/rods so no worry)

Wastegate - GT-SS are internally gated - no need for one

N1 Water pump - no needed, stock GTR replacement only

At the end of the day, its gonna come close to 16k man. Maybe around 13-14k once its all done. Thats what building a reliable car costs.

Not including the clutch might need replacing etc.

[PHATR32]

Instead of AFMs why not go PFC DJetro? also might want to look at upgrading the oil pump aswell appears to be a must for big HP 26s.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cause you dont need to go jetro.

the afms will always be better than a map sensor. easier to tune and for a street driven car itll be better all round.

sydneykid has posted that about a million times

[Topaz]

Im learning, Im learning..One thing is I din't know about turbos being 'wastegated' etc...even tho it wil be an every day car pretty much those GT-SS's sound ok, but I want that 500hp I was on about for this project.

Thanks for your help so far guys, I will stick to the PFC, belt, cams and remote oil for now . And hope that I have no major expenses (not going towards this) any time soon

hahahah! 11ty billion

[rev210]

cause you dont need to go jetro.

the afms will always be better than a map sensor. easier to tune and for a street driven car itll be better all round.

sydneykid has posted that about a million times

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to think that too.

However. I am going to the D-jetro for no other reason than it just works better on the GTR's full stop.

I know of three cars now with more than 600rwhp that have upgraded to the d-jetro and have light years better fuel ecconomy than even a standardish GTR on either the factory or standard PFC could ever dream of. How does 600kms to a tank sound?

I can only guess that the two AFM's suffer from issues relating to the different flows that they always incur as a result of factory pipework, an the fact that the ecu must calcualte be it ever so small or large an allow for the different amounts of air. Perhaps on a single AFM this might not be the case but, I have seen nothing to compare to what the D-jetro in the right hands is capable of.

Topaz,

If you want 500rwhp easy peazy then bolt up a single TO4z or go the garret 2860rs

With a set of 260 tomei poncams. The engine will need rebuilding for the task to be reliable, and a whole host of high km standard things that will wear out faster than you can blink. However you can always lower the boost and make a bit less power till you are ready for the rebuild and have fun with it for longer. 400rwhp on either of these turbo setups still makes for alot of fun with potential left to tune into.Mine is sitting at 370rwhp odd with very little boost, I still have standard dump pipes and I suppose replacing those at the same tune level and boost would put me at 400hp or so, it's nice to know there is more if you want it when you can actually pay for it.

You might also consider why 500rwhp?

Have you been in something with a snick over 400rwhp? It's pretty good and the extra 100rwhp pushes the issue of breaking things. Namely the gearbox.

you ought to think about an application you want to put your car to.

[pnblight]

This is a list of what I want to do for stage 1:

Power FC - APEXI

Cam Gears - TOMEI Adjustable

Timing Belt - TOMEI

New std are fine (Fuel Filter)

List of extras to get me to ~500hp: (Seperated into possible stages)

AFM's - RB20/25afms will make 500rwhp & plug straight inor Z32 with TOMEI Z32 Adaptor (there not nismo)

Injectors - SARD 700CC DONT GO ANY SMALLER

Spark Plugs - NGK (Gapped to 0.8)

================

Fuel Pump - NISMO

Water Pump - GTR N1

Oil Catch Can - GREDDY

================

Camshafts - TOMEI (IN260deg / EX260deg / L9.15mm)

Valve Springs - TOMEI (not a must but nice to have)

================

Piston - std will make the power will not live for ever (forged a good investment)

Con Rods - TOMEI Forged H-beam (not a must but nice to have can get away with arp rod bolts)

Crankshaft - R33 GTR Replacement (very bottom of the list, but still thought of)

================

Turbos - Garrett Gt2560r 707160-5 or HKS 2530

Wastegate - there internally gated

================

Fuel Rail - not need and the sard will fit std rail

Balancer - unless your looking pass 9000rpm not needed

Oil Cooler

other things

induction piping custom 3"(descreen your 80mm afms)

exhaust must be very free flowing ie twin 3"into 3 1/2"etc

intercooler will make the power but a 100mm unit will handel it better

cam cap studs can be a weak point tomei replacements are cheaper enough

built a number of 500rwhp plus gtrs now and its no real rocket science you just have to put a matched package together like you said with no bottle necks.

pete

[Topaz]

I need a new job

Things I didn't encorporate:

Guages (I have an Autometer boost guage)

Intake (intercooler, induction pipe)

Exhaust (it does have a 3" mandrel exhaust with a dump pipe at the moment)

Turbos (the sheer size and cost of this upgrade)

Pistons (I did look at these, but left them off the list for some reason...)

So would it be easier/cheaper/more relaible to get a PFC D-Jetro or a PFC and AFM's?....thats my biggest problem for stage 1

cheers

[rev210]

Talk to Ant at X-speed about the D-jetro, he is good at both PFC's when it comes to tuning but his recent experience with the D-jetro is worth listening to.

[pnblight]

I need a new job

Things I didn't encorporate:

Guages (I have an Autometer boost guage)

Intake (intercooler, induction pipe)

Exhaust (it does have a 3" mandrel exhaust with a dump pipe at the moment)

Turbos (the sheer size and cost of this upgrade)

Pistons (I did look at these, but left them off the list for some reason...)

So would it be easier/cheaper/more relaible to get a PFC D-Jetro or a PFC and AFM's?....thats my biggest problem for stage 1

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the pfc and rb20/25 afms

pfc$1000 or less and rb20/25 afms for $100 to $150 ea i ran as high as 530rwhp with this combo, j-detro good but more $$ and more $$ to tune but not by much.

[Topaz]

Is Ant on these forums?

I spoke to him briefly about his car at the last cruise, but that was it...I knew his car had the D-Jetro, mad car B)

PFC with AFM's sounds good for me anyway, I don't wanna have the D-Jetro tuned everytime I get something else done

[paulr33]

whilst i am way out of my league i am intersted to know why you believe twin map sensors will be far better as far as the car running is concerned. one meaures directly airflow via a hotwire and reports this to the ecu, there is always increasing airflow via the airflow meters. the other measures "pressure" and gives an answer based on guessing the amount of air in the system (by maths). "pressure" and "air volume" are two different things and it could never be as accurate.

once you reach target boost (pretend 15psi) the map sensor system will always give same anwser, lets say 4volts to the ecu as "air volume" (guessed by map sensor calculations) as the pressure is fixed, despite different volumes of air coming in constantly. so once you reach target boost your maps go from 2 dimensional (air vs rpm) it gets translated to single dimension map as the air load (coming from the map sensor) is fixed and won't change, assuming a relibable wastegate and boost controller.