Ultimate Emanage Install

[mad34]

Hi all,

I have just got my car back from the mechanic after an attempted install of the greddy emanage ultimate on r34 auto skyline.

i supplied him with everything needed all wiring diagrams ie zener diode diagram given to me by 666DAN which by the way definately needs to be used. I used a field one touch connector(harness) the ignition signal adaptor. After install the emanage communicates with the laptop changes are able to be made. however when using the emanage to control engine the ignition breaks up???

At first i was thinking it could be coils, but when the emanage is unplugged and the std ecu plugged in the car works fine at around 10psi. So i doubt it is my coils, as theoretically this should happen all the time if they are shagged. Unless anyone can shed any light on this for me and tell me different.

the r34 has a boost cut mechansim built into does anyone know what psi this kicks in?? Sometimes i get the same sort of problem from the car running on std ecu when turbo is boosting to about 10psi. Is that when the boost cut kicks in?? It seems anything over that i get ignition break up. at the moment i have a greddy profec e01 controlling boost and plugs gapped to 0.6.

thankyou for taking the time to read this post. I really need some help on this issue as otherwise my emanage will become an expensive paperweight. It seems nowadays if you want to get something working you have find out for yourself mechanics cant really be bothered if its anytihg other than simple they wont try and find out. So i will put my problem at the mercy of the forum fro some help and advice as most of the time ppl on here know more than your average tuner.

Please Help

regards Chris

[Tangles]

What mechanic are you going to, and have they installed these Emanage systems before in to Skylines?

[mad34]

i dont think he has done one before he did say he could do it though so thats what i was working off. i am taking it to high tech auto and dyno on tuesday though apparently he has done them before. i just want to gather as much info as possible to share with john down there. I am really fussy with my car and actually have half an idea so if i can gather more info i should be able to get this think working. if i do i will open the door for auto skylines to be tuned properly without sacrificing shift quality or manual conversion having to be done

i dont really want to say who attempted it as i am not really pissed at him just pissed its not working and don t want to give hima bad rep or anything as he is a decent enough guy. Its just not many ppl have used emanage ulitmate before

[Sydneykid]

Lets start off with ......

There is no such thing as "boost cut" , the ecu doesn't care what boost you are running. All that matters is the airflow as measured by the AFM. When the ECU sees excessive airflow it moves to Rich (fuel) and Retard (ignition) mapping to protect the engine. R34 ecu's have very aggressive and smart R&R strategy, they not only look at how much airflow, but also how fast the airflow increases with rpm and throttle opening. If you exceed the parameters the ecu throws in heaps of fuel and retards the ignition to blazes. This is what is felt as missing and sudden losses of power.

As for the EManage.......

I have yet to see an R34 succesfuly running the ignition tuning via an EManage. Blown coils, failed ignitors etc have been common amongst people trying to get it to work. Most seem to have been able to get the injector control part of the EManage working OK though.

My understanding of the problem is, the R34 ecu to ignitor control is very specific and the ignitiors don't like the EManage trigger signal. This causes them to overheat and eventualy fail. The Nissan system is not the same as the other car manufacturers which the EManage handles OK.

You really need to get to a workshop with an oscilloscop that can map the standard coil trigger signals and compare them with the EManage. That will confirm whether or not that issue can be adjusted out.

This issue has been discussed on this forum many times, that's probably why so few people have EManage experience. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but better to face up to it now rather than live in false hope.

cheers

PS; this situation changes every day, I am sure Trust are aware of it. I stopped looking at EManage as a solution for autos some time ago, so it may have already changed. But I have seen no evidence of it to date.

[mad34]

Hmmm..

People have got the blue emanage working even with the ingnition control. 666DAN got it working zener diodes had to be put in place to lessen the voltage flow to the coils to stop them from frying. Thats not the issue i am having it seems to be going into rich retard mode or coils are breaking down or arcing out to the head under high load or extreme heat i dont know.

SK do you know if coils will do this work most of the time, but then under higher load arc out ???

My car even seems to do this sometimes under high load with standard ecu. with boost any higher than 10psi. its weird i know, but it is happening. Any other ideas?? known problems.

[Alien]

i got a blue emanage in the GTT and havent noticed any problems with anything yet

[mad34]

alien did you get it working with ignition harness??

[666DAN]

Sounds frustrating...it seems as though there may be a few things at play here, the R34 coil packs can play up and when they do it's not pretty. The other thing is there may be something extremely simple wrong with the e-manage install, doesn't take much to cause chaos.

SK the diode trick does work to control the firing voltage, the zeners only allow an overflow voltage of around 1.7v which is more in-line with the factory firing-signal voltage. The RX-8 suffers from an identical problem when using the e-manage.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...hl=e-manage+R34

This thread Show's the setup from my old N/A + turbo R34...he picked it up somewhere after my car was written-off and has it for sale.

You may be able to see the red wire has a funny shaped bit of heatshrink...the zener is inside it.

[Alien]

alien did you get it working with ignition harness??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not sure man

i only found out i had it in the car the other day =)

[rd-runr]

mad34,

Don't make the same mistake that I did and take it to someone that has not tuned an eManage B4. I'm paying for it now!

If you live in Adelaide take it down to Boost Worx in Panorama because they have had alot of experience with the eManage compared to others and will do their best to fix your problem.

Edited December 7, 2005 by rd-runr

[Sydneykid]

Sounds frustrating...it seems as though there may be a few things at play here, the R34 coil packs can play up and when they do it's not pretty. The other thing is there may be something extremely simple wrong with the e-manage install, doesn't take much to cause chaos.

SK the diode trick does work to control the firing voltage, the zeners only allow an overflow voltage of around 1.7v which is more in-line with the factory firing-signal voltage. The RX-8 suffers from an identical problem when using the e-manage.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...hl=e-manage+R34

This thread Show's the setup from my old N/A + turbo R34...he picked it up somewhere after my car was written-off and has it for sale.

You may be able to see the red wire has a funny shaped bit of heatshrink...the zener is inside it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have heard of the zener diode in the circuit to limit the trigger voltage, but it doesn't cure all of the problems. There is an impedance issue and a linked dwell angle difference from what I have seen. As I said in the previous post you really need someone with a cro to analyse the standard ignition trigger signal and the EManage ignition trigger signal and compare them. Then make all the changes necessary so that coil sees exactly the same signal from the EManage that the standard ECU delivers.

As for the missfiring, I still believe it is the ECU R&R mapping causing it, you really need to control the AFM voltage so that the ECU has no reason to move to R&R mapping. This takes carefull tuning of the A/F ratios. Due to the above, the coils are not firing the plugs as strongly as they would, so it's a combination of this and the excessive AFM voltages (both absolute and speed of change) that the ECU is seeing. That's why, when you remove one (of the two), it works OK.

cheers

[mad34]

thanks sk all good info to tell the next mechanic that attempts it about. And rd rnr boost worx hasnt dont them shaun is a nice guy and really helpful, but hasnt used emanage before alreadt been down that road

[Tangles]

Hey Mad34, call Graham West Workshops & speak to ashely or brett.... they may be able to help. They asked me why I did the safc / sitc combo and not a emanage, so I assume they may have played with the emanage previously. Worth a phone call, as those lads are very helpful.

[mad34]

i am taking it to john at hightech auto and dyno the authorised greddy dealer in adelaide told me to take it there so i will give him a go i wish i had taken it there first.

[Sydneykid]

i am taking it to john at hightech auto and dyno the authorised greddy dealer in adelaide told me to take it there so i will give him a go i wish i had taken it there first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If he fixes, it can you please make sure you postup what exactly he did. That way everyone will know what is necessary and so many won't fall into the trap.

cheers

[mad34]

I will do my best.

[rd-runr]

thanks sk all good info to tell the next mechanic that attempts it about.  And rd rnr boost worx hasnt dont them shaun is a nice guy and really helpful, but hasnt used emanage before alreadt been down that road

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dammit,

should never quote secondhand info.

Anyways let us know how the tune turns out, I may be following in your footsteps.

[666DAN]

Well all I can say is I never had any issue with regards to the ignition coils frying *after* the e-manage was on, all my coils died with just the factory ECU The e-manage was on the car for 18 months and worked a treat.

I have actually seen the trigger signal on a CRO and that's why we used the zener path as we could mimick it with no problems...no impedance issues were evident at the time, and this was quiet obvious in the performace of the car, no breakdown, no stuttering..basically perfect operation.

I agree, when you know what fixes it let us know

Also for anyone that doesn't know, the bikirom megaboard now works in the R34's (I have one installed now )

www.bikirom.com

[mad34]

well i spent all day working on my car friday. I can definately say if you want something done properly you have to do it yourself.

I went through everything pulled coils out again for closer inspection they were perfect. so i put some dielectric grease on spring connector to the plugs anyways just to be sure.

then i decided to check out my AFM and what do you know it was filthy as. so i took to it with some nulon throttle body cleaner and what do you know. My car is running perfect i was able to up the boost up to 13 psi with no ignition break up problems. or R/R issues just boost all the way up i have set it back to 12 for now though. and i have to say that the greddy profec E01 is a really good EBC i am extremily happy with its operations and functions.

so when i take the emanage to high tech auto and dyno theoretically the emanage should plug and play with no break up.

i cant believe the mechanic didnt check the AFM. here i am a backyard mechanic and i end up doing his job for him.

It just goes to show the average mechanic tuning house out there dont really give F**K about your car or its problems you have to fix it yourself.

[justin911]

whats the emanage do thats so cool just outa curiositiy ??

like im not saying its bad (cause i dont no anything about it) but seems like alot of effort to get it going ??