What Should I Do To My Gtr

[STOCKGTR]

  STOCKGTR said:

I am having big blow by problems on the track also. None through the dipstick, just through the breathers. I fill the ARC catch can in 4 laps.

My oil pump is stock...I think??? I never replaced it. So I am a bit weiry to add an extra 1 lt of oil.

Will the trust sump extension kit with baffle and pick up reduce my blow by?

Has anyone used the Mines Rocket Cover Baffle Kit?

I need help I hate having this problem at the track, it gets VERY messy

Anyone??

all feedback appreciated

[djr81]

Will the trust sump extension kit with baffle and pick up reduce my blow by?

NO.

I have seen this happen to a few cars now. Mostly it is related to having too much oil in the head of the motor & it overwhelming your catch can. Sometimes it is dependent on whether a circuit is clockwise or anticlockwise - people can have problems if their catch can is on the passenger side & the circuit is anticlockwise.

Have you plumbed the can back into the sump?

[STOCKGTR]

  djr81 said:

Will the trust sump extension kit with baffle and pick up reduce my blow by?

NO.

I have seen this happen to a few cars now. Mostly it is related to having too much oil in the head of the motor & it overwhelming your catch can. Sometimes it is dependent on whether a circuit is clockwise or anticlockwise - people can have problems if their catch can is on the passenger side & the circuit is anticlockwise.

Have you plumbed the can back into the sump?

No, The catch can is the ARC one which sits on the front drivers side. It gets the blow by vis one braided hose coming from the rocker cover. I'm thinking the mines cam cover tripple baffle plate will help reduce the blow by????

Any thoughts....anyone?

[ebola]

I've thought about the possibility or re-directing the oil back into the engine (sump return)... would stop the sump from running dry.

I read somewhere the fables gibson gtr's did this. Of course, this means that fuel gets into the oil (right?), and regular oil changes will be needed...

I don't know if its a good idea for a street car, but on the track, you could do it (put a tap into it).

blow by is mostly caused because the piston rings arn't a perfect seal (and when they do, the engine siezes), right? So less boost (less cylinder pressure) would help.

baffle plates help prevent oil starvation (air near the pickup), so I understand with my highly practical theoretical background... bigger sump means more oil reserve (less % of oil for same abount of blow by & oil burn).

umm, yeah.

ebola

[Duncan]

yes an additional drain from the head to the sump can help with too much oil in the head. Sydneykid has posted a detailed thread about oil control in rb engines.

Also re the mines baffles, I haven't seen those in particular but there are standard baffles in the cam covers and I have also seen foam used - just like a catch can it is designed to catch oil suspended in air before it goes out the engine breathers...then it drains back into the sump.

The trust sump won't help with blowby but it would help keep your bottom end healthy on the track.

[noone]

To those adding the extra litre of oil just curious as to wether u leave it in there after a track day (or are u refering to track only cars) or do u change oil straight away after track days an just run normal ammount or what , Just curious. Asked the mechanic who has been tuning my line and he looked at me like I was mad an said not to bother, maybe becaus it was my first track day and on street tyres so he figured Maximum G's were not gonna be a problem.

[Duncan]

he's probably right, but it is cheap insurance isn't it?

No problem leaving the extra litre in there, and depending on how hard and hot you run it you should probably dump the oil anyway.

[STOCKGTR]

  Duncan said:

he's probably right, but it is cheap insurance isn't it?

No problem leaving the extra litre in there, and depending on how hard and hot you run it you should probably dump the oil anyway.

The way I understand it, is that if there is an extra litre in there then it will increase oil pressure, thus creating more blow by?????

[Scotsman]

  STOCKGTR said:

The way I understand it, is that if there is an extra litre in there then it will increase oil pressure, thus creating more blow by?????

True. I found that I got a lot of blow by until it settled at Full. But then I would top it back up and start again, becuase it's always better to have lots of blow by than to have spun bearings.

[noone]

So even if I had a catch can oil cooler relocator (ie extra capacity and cooling effect) would the extra litre be justified still if I didnt have oil retrictors fitted in the heads. Somewhat concerned about the aditional oil pressure created by the extra oil and possibility of blowing seals in turbo or engine due to it.

[tjandriesen]

At the risk of widening the conversation, I'm keen to get my car on the track and it is pretty much stock engine wise (Apexi intake, cat back exhaust). I'm pretty sure to begin with it is more than fast enough for my driving skills so have started putting $$$ into upgrading brakes first and looking at tires and suspension next.

I'm hearing you guys talk about oils coolers, sump baffles, etc. From an engine standpoint, if I want to track my GTR, what would you invest in part wise what to make sure at the end of the day you can run hard and not toast the motor. I'm looking to building a solid, reliable car that I can crank up the power on as my driving skills improve.

[Scotsman]

  tjandriesen said:

I'm hearing you guys talk about oils coolers, sump baffles, etc. From an engine standpoint, if I want to track my GTR, what would you invest in part wise what to make sure at the end of the day you can run hard and not toast the motor. I'm looking to building a solid, reliable car that I can crank up the power on as my driving skills improve.

Get at least a 19row oil cooler installed and add a litre of good oil. I suggest Castrol Full Synth 10W/60 - "For race proven competition engine" or some marketing talk like that on the bottle

No Melbourne stockish GTR's have had any oil related engine issues on track with the theory above.

[Scotsman]

  noone said:

So even if I had a catch can oil cooler relocator (ie extra capacity and cooling effect) would the extra litre be justified still if I didnt have oil retrictors fitted in the heads. Somewhat concerned about the aditional oil pressure created by the extra oil and possibility of blowing seals in turbo or engine due to it.

Oil pressure is a good thing. Honestly I don't think you will get enought pressure to cause damage.

Catch can and oil coolers are two seperate things, which I think you know but wasn't clear from that sentance above. But yeah we have been 'advised' to still add a litre or till it's above the 'F' on dip stick

[Sydneykid]

The problems that I have seen are not usually guys with GTR’s on their first day out, but after they have had a couple of outings. They fit some sticky tyres, get the suspension set up, some decent rotors, brake fluid and pads and start to learn the fast way around a track. Then the oil surge problem raises its ugly head, mostly the engines are fairly standard, boost up, exhaust etc. They start using higher rpm more consistently, generating higher G forces both round corners and with later/ heavier braking and acceleration.

The problem is the more consistent higher rpm moves more oil into the cam covers which doesn’t have time to drain back into the sump. The higher G forces further slow down that draining, particularly cornering and braking. Plus they cause the oil to move away form the oil pick up in the sump. It only takes a few revolutions of the crankshaft to cause bearing failure. At 6,000 rpm, 6 crankshaft revolutions takes 0.06 secs, you won’t even notice that on the oil pressure gauge, especially mid corner.

An oil cooler will not help you with oil surge, however it will help keep the oil temperature within a decent operating range. An extra litre won’t do it either, more like a 3 litre overfill would be necessary. But then the spinning crank would hit the oil when there weren’t any G forces to move it away. That is both bad for the crank (impact) and the oil, whipping it into a foamy mess that is not good for lubrication.

So my advice to guys with GTR’s is, sticky tyres and upgraded suspension = a sump with baffles, wings and one way doors.

cheers

[r33_racer]

And anyone who knows anything will believe that except anyone in mexico....funny hey.

[Roy]

  r33_racer said:

And anyone who knows anything will believe that except anyone in mexico....funny hey.

I know nothing so perhaps thats why.

I hate to admit it but as a rule Vic has the quickest GTRs around with a high std of driver in them. (how else tcan they be so quick)

A few of them have been very quick on std motors until they got power hungry. Some slapped turbos on std motors, some built motors as well. The only GTRs that have let go have been old tired std engines with T78s slapped on the side. No real surprise.

So whilst i agree that if your engine is out then its a good idea to do the sump etc. But GTR owners that wrap their cars up in cotton wool because their motors are std are missing out on the fun.

I question anyone in the country that can build/tune cars as well as Vics leading few workshops....so whilst i believe what SK posted...i believe its bordering on the little too conservative side

[r33_racer]

yeh i dont know anything either...i only race a lowly gtst...how could i or other like me compare to the godly gtr drivers. There arent too many quick ones up here..apart from Giant ofcourse.

[ferni]

  r33_racer said:

And anyone who knows anything will believe that except anyone in mexico....funny hey.

I guess we can only go on experience. And what we see is exactly what Scotsman/Roy posted.

The Stock GTR is a pretty good package, if it really is stock then i'd probably just add an Oil cooler and you should be fine to go have some fun. But listen to what SK said, that if you start to do more go-faster mods, don't forget about the safety mods....

[r33_racer]

  ferni said:

I guess we can only go on experience. And what we see is exactly what Scotsman/Roy posted.

The Stock GTR is a pretty good package, if it really is stock then i'd probably just add an Oil cooler and you should be fine to go have some fun. But listen to what SK said, that if you start to do more go-faster mods, don't forget about the safety mods....

Yeh i was only taking the piss in what i originally said. But its strange how down south there you guys dont run into those problems...i dont know about nsw but it happens here. Doesnt just apply to gtr's either.

[Roy]

Sill question? Which side of the sump is the GTR pickup?

There are quick left and right handers in Vic so if its a problem i would have thought it would have shown up at places like PI.

Strange...the only thing i can think of is the fact that Vic guys overfill their engines...others dont. I know Dave (The R32 with a T04Z on a std engine in Syd) overfill and he is kicking.

But meh, me a lowly GTSt driver as well. GTRs guys with all their talk of diffs, brakes and sump baffles... its like using a bobcat to pick your nose