Police Powers And Your Rights

[Johnny Cash]

To croat:

Yep, you're right, 10 points!

It seems that under Part 3, Division 2 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 , sections 44 - 47 outline the requirement for measuring a vehicle's speed, and there seems to be no provision for estimations.

Give it a read if you can be bothered:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/con.../rtatma1999412/

Cheers.

[Johnny Cash]

I once asked for an officers badge number.

It was refused.

I called the station to try to get details of the officer.

I gave details of the incident to the call taker, (including the number on the car, the location and time of incident)  and I was told the officer would "be dealt with", but I was still denied the reqiured information.

For all I know, the person who took the call could have been the same officer who refused to give his details to me in the first place. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, section 86L of the Police Regulation Act 1958 seems to outline the conditions under which a person can make a complaint. It's pretty long winded, so rather than re-type it, I've sent you the link:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...act/pra1958187/

Should be helpful - just scroll down til you get to '86L'

Edited December 22, 2005 by Johnny Cash

[Johnny Cash]

I think if we keep this going we should be able to compile a handbook for each State... I'm sure other car forums and clubs would be interested in that!

[SKY031]

I've been compiling legal info (organised by state) as I come across it.

http://wiki.r31skylineclub.com/index.php?t...gal_Information

Quite basic stuff at the moment, but hopefully some links thrown into this thread will help add to it.

[Johnny Cash]

I dare say that's a great start, if not already most of the job done!!!

We need to spread it around tho, make it known, try to arm ourselves with the best knowledge we can. Not to be smart asses, just to prevent anyone else from being smart asses.

[PHATR32]

this info is great!!!!!!!! are these rules availble in an offical hardcopy book?

e.g if a cop pulls you over and starts harrsing you can open it to section xx and say "looky ere, u cant do dat!"

any info on wa yet??

thanks for the great work!

steve

[Johnny Cash]

Thanks for your support Steve. Nah, nothing on hardcopy yet, but if we compile enough information, might have to make a series of books covering each State. A5 sized booklet so it can fit in the glove box

Might have to make a wish-list of what each book should cover. All things going well, there'll be one of these in the glove box of every Skyline one day.

I'll get onto WA today, see what I can dig up...

[benm]

What's best to do in such a case where police refuse to give such information is record the licence plates on the police vehicle, and record the date and time.

I was standing outside me vehicle face to face with these 2 cops (as instructed to), they flat out refused to give me their badge number and/or any other details more than 5 times even after I stated they had to give me these details upon request. They took my license and walked back to their cop car parked behind mine to checkup on me.

I grabbed a pen and paper out of my car (through the window) and walked to the back of my car (rear wing) and started to write down the cars number plate details. They realised what I was doing and got straight back out of their cars (hands on guns) and yelled at me to stop writing down their rego numbers and put the pen and paper away.

I told them that if they wouldn't give me their badge numbers then I was getting their rego details, at this point in time it wouldn't have taken much more talking from me to have them shove my ass to the ground so I stopped what I was doing and put the pen and paper away as instructed to. Even when the constable arrived 10mins later I was still refused any badge numbers and instead all I got was the constables office contact number on a business card.

So once again, whilst the laws may permit certain things that citizens can and can't do, the police can do what they want when they want and we dont have a leg to stand on (unless their is a lawyer present at the time in which case they'll do everything by the book).

Edit: One of my parents actually works in the police force, their are certain books I can get about rules and regulations however most of them are 1000+ pages and would take months to digest/copy.

Edited December 22, 2005 by benm

[Josh]

I love this thread

[dezz]

i think this thread is a good idea, to an extent.

with all this knowledge, people will start to get cocky, and make officers play it 100% by the book. which is fine....if you're willing to accept each and every little bullshit defect he gives you BY THE BOOK after you get smart to him.

It works both ways. They may have been doing something not 100% by the book, but they also may be overlooking several defects etc....you get smart with your new found knowledge, and they'll start to remember all the laws in regards to defecting etc

as for your situation benm, i would have straight out asked, "are you going to shoot me for writing down the rego?"

they wouldnt have done shit. obviously just being heros.

[blackprincegts]

In regards to does an officer have to give a member of the public their name. Members of SAPOL are issued with this operations statement "Your certificate of identity is issued to certify that you are a member of SA Police. You are to : Carry it when on Duty, Produce it when requested,to certify that you are a member of SA Police, Use it only when you act in your capacity as a Police Officer.

Using this alone can IN SOME CASES bring into disrupute the officer handling the particular case. There have been past instances where normal members of the public have posed as Police Officers and even used undercover cars very similar to that used by SAPOL. If they cant prove they are a Police Officer then you can bassically hop back into your vehicle and drive away.

( Believe me!! It's actually happend to me, in my case the man who pulled m,e over was prosecuted by police for impersonating a police officer)

[Johnny Cash]

To benm:

Yeah, you are right. When lawyers are not around, many police officers abuse their powers like nobody's business. You were entitled to get their names and badge numbers, and could have refused to co-operate any further until this request was met. If they arrested you for failing to co-operate, it would have been all in vain- they failed to follow proper police procedure, and any offences committed from that point on will not hold up in court (as a rule).

Last I checked, you are not even required to get out of your vehicle, if you do not want to. I think they can request you to show your hands, but you can just stick them out of the window. I have to get into this a lot more before I can come up with anything solid... I didn't think this thread would be so successful, it's wearing me out!

They all abused their power, and deprived you of your rights. They would all be subject to disciplinary action and formal complaints filed against them - but like you said...

[Johnny Cash]

i think this thread is a good idea, to an extent.

with all this knowledge, people will start to get cocky, and make officers play it 100% by the book. which is fine....if you're willing to accept each and every little bullshit defect he gives you BY THE BOOK after you get smart to him.

It works both ways. They may have been doing something not 100% by the book, but they also may be overlooking several defects etc....you get smart with your new found knowledge, and they'll start to remember all the laws in regards to defecting etc

as for your situation benm, i would have straight out asked, "are you going to shoot me for writing down the rego?"

they wouldnt have done shit. obviously just being heros.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're exactly right, which is why I don't want people to use this thread to get cocky. I want them to use this thread to avoid the sorts of things people are writing in about. Most of these motorists get defected in any event, I'm not trying to prevent that - just make them prepared.

This thread is only here to educate the motoring community about their rights and obligations... and maybe to put an end to the illegal and improper abuse of police power that seemingly happens all too often.

In every interaction I've had with police, they've been more than decent. And from experience, if you're nice to police, they'll be nice in return. That said, and I'll say it again, knowledge is power.

[GTR R35]

If you want to know how the police work, then you need a copy of the Police SOPs (Standard Operating Procedure). It is the book on how to be a cop and has lots of info that interperets the law. Things like no radaring on the downhill. Do not book someone who is within 200m of another car traveling in the same direction when using radar, I could go on, but we need a copy. I have a few pages somewhere about radar operations.

The second thing I strongly suggest is you record the conversation either by video or audio. Most mobile phones have video and/or audio recording. If you are pulled over by a hwp car in NSW they must advise them that you are being recorded by their incar system.

Also after heaps of reading, I can tell you that laser detectors / jammers are LEGAL in NSW, as they only have banned Radar jammers/detectors.

Edited December 22, 2005 by 4DoorGTR

[GTAHH]

Put it this way, you act like this to a police officer all the time he might start to notice how loud your exhaust is etc etc.

People have many rights but don't abuse them, you speed, you get fined. Laser detectors are legal at this stage, but keep in mind they only work when they detect a laser, meaning that you more than likely have already been clocked.

[GTAHH]

Officers who join up in NSW are issued with the NSW police handbook (500+ pages). It has all the rules and obligations of being a police officer, and yes it can be downloaded from the NSW police website

[GTR R35]

I cannot find this doco on the police website, got the link ?

[chaos]

So basically if im in a parking lot, chattin with mates or whatever not doing anything wrong, a cop has no right just to walk up to me and ask to search my car for anything illegal?

[dezz]

So basically if im in a parking lot, chattin with mates or whatever not doing anything wrong, a cop has no right just to walk up to me and ask to search my car for anything illegal?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

errr no. where is there reason to suspect illegal weapons/drugs etc?

[chaos]

Put it this way, you act like this to a police officer all the time he might start to notice how loud your exhaust is etc etc.

People have many rights but don't abuse them, you speed, you get fined. Laser detectors are legal at this stage, but keep in mind they only work when they detect a laser, meaning that you more than likely have already been clocked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Theres actually a detector that was perfectly legal, there was a big uproar here in QLD but havent heard anything since.