Police Powers And Your Rights

[GTAHH]

Especially now the rules are changing. Say your parked near the beach in NSW with a group of mates, yes they have the right to search the car for weapons and drugs. People tend to think you can't search their car, but yes you can. You don't let them search it, they assume you've got something to hide and more than likely you will be walking home or asking the officer for a lift home and an expensive tow ticket

Sorry don't have the link, it is on there somewhere or maybe the uni site for it, so it can be downloaded by students

[chaos]

errr no. where is there reason to suspect illegal weapons/drugs etc?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've seen it happen, Cop asked a guy to pop his bonnet etc, guy asked why, cop goes "cause i said so"

[dezz]

lol i didnt say they wont do it...i said they aren't legally allowed. popping the bonnet is completely different to searching a car though.

[benm]

If you say know they'll just arrest you with 'failing to obey police orders' or something like that. Face it, police are untouchable without a lawyer right there to really tell them what the law actually is.

[chaos]

yeh one officer was checking the engine the other looked through the passenger window.

[dezz]

i dont think you can refuse popping the bonnet, unless the keys arent in the ignition or you're not near your car etc....there's probably an exact distance that means they cant ask you about the car...

but as for searching, u can refuse if they have no reason to suspect anything....and if they arrest you, then it will get sorted out at the end of the day. wrongful arrest, formal complaints etc...

and im pretty sure looking through the window doesnt constitute a vehicle search

[LO_R33]

To LO R33:

"So - are cops allowed to  book you ages after you do something wrong? Specially if its speeding, and secondly, can they guess speeds?"

Yes, unfortunately he is, so long as it is a reasonable amount of time after. In this case, it would be. Sorry. 

They can also estimate speeds, and although you can put this up to question, an officer will normally be believed in the court unless there is something by which you can cast doubt. But 100 in a 60 is something that an officer would be able to judge.

As I said earlier, this is not definite, but most probably the case. Sorry to ruin your day. Your only hope is that he was too slack to do the paperwork, or was just trying to incite the fear of God into you... 

Either way, there's no use stressing about it now. If it turns up, it turns up. If you receive a notice, feel free to mention something about its contents on here and I'll give it a browse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks mate, It was a friend that was booked... although the fine never turned up in the mail (it was a few months ago now :lol: ) so he was lucky.

Though got done a couple of weeks ago - and he isn't complaining which is good.. because im glad its about time hes gotten a fine.. been driving like a total tool for the past 6 months

One last question, are you allowed to record the conversation? And do you have to tell them? Specially with a policemen whos ment to be a 'roll model' by first tail gating someone.. and secondly calling them a dickhead, or a fcukwit.

Cheers mate

Dayne

[Johnny Cash]

If you build it, they will come! I can't believe how quickly this post has taken off! How come no-one thought of this before?!?

[IOWNU]

I've seen it happen, Cop asked a guy to pop his bonnet etc, guy asked why, cop goes "cause i said so"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Abuse of power.

Even if you know your rights (being a Law student i pretty much do) the police officer ALWAYS wins. That's a fact.

They can always "fabricate" the truth to their advantage and if things do end up in court, i doubt a magistrate would make a big issue about a cop being too strict or abusing his power on some "P Plater import driving hoon"

IMO, the best way to stay out of trouble with the cops is to co-operate.

If you act like a smartass with the "accroding to section bla bla bla" it just pisses them off more.

If you comply with them, i think you'll find that a lot of cops can be nice guys. If you challenege their authority, that's when you end up with a canary, in most instances the cop would have let it slip, UNTIL you thought you'd go all smartass lawyer on him.

Smile, be polite and you'll come out in a better position.

Edited December 22, 2005 by IOWNU

[Johnny Cash]

To LO R33:

I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell them anyone, because it's not part of your job or anything like that. They, on the other hand, have to tell you. I'm not sure where this all comes from (legislatively speaking), and will try to hunt it down. But I can't imagine, especially in the age we live in without surveillance being commonplace, that if you 'happened' to have your mobile set on voice record, or a video camera on record, they could not do anything about it. And if they told you to turn it off and you refused, you would have that on tape!

Getting sticky here, so leave it with me and I'll find out.

[Johnny Cash]

To IOWNU:

Hey, good to see another lawyer into skylines, which uni you going to, when you expecting to graduate?

What you're saying is true, co-operation is the best way to get out of trouble. But sometimes you will stumble across a cowboy with an itchy ticket book finger, and no amount of co-operation will relieve the situation. And lots of these guys and gals are getting canaries 'left, right and center' without arguing the law - so what's the difference gonna be?

I say, knowledge is power, and trust me, showing an officer you know the law can have its advantages!

[dezz]

ive always been under the impression that you have to tell them if you're filming/recording the conversation....so interested to see you clear it up with some laws

[justin911]

you can film / record anything you like as long as its not accessible by the general public.. ie i can record any phone call i like and not tell anyone im doing it as long as i dont stick it on a website etc etc...

a police man told me this while i was in a police station in victoria...

[chaos]

you only have to tell them if they ask.

[IOWNU]

To IOWNU:

Hey, good to see another lawyer into skylines, which uni you going to, when you expecting to graduate?

What you're saying is true, co-operation is the best way to get out of trouble. But sometimes you will stumble across a cowboy with an itchy ticket book finger, and no amount of co-operation will relieve the situation. And lots of these guys and gals are getting canaries 'left, right and center' without arguing the law - so what's the difference gonna be? 

I say, knowledge is power, and trust me, showing an officer you know the law can have its advantages! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LoL...well I'm nowhere near becoming a Lawyer yet! I'm only in 2nd year, I have another 3 years to go (double degree though Law/Commerce @ Deakin Uni in Melbourne.)

Ofcourse knowing the law has its advantage, especially if you run into some bastard cop, like that Poptart guy everyone always raves and rants about in Vic.

I suppose the main advantage is that you can prevent a cop from coercing you into saying something you wouldn't.

I think the best way to deal with a cop is, at first, behave nicely, be polite and if he treats you like a criminal, that's when you rip out the law.

Peace.

[Teej]

Hey

Im studying legal studies and think this is a very interesting thread.

Just wondering if there is any of these documents available relating to WA? eg, "Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000" relating to WA

in the past ive just used the fact im female.. eg, a few months ago i was pulled up for street racing, I put on an academy awarding winning sob act... and got off with a warning. but yeah... should stick to actual info...and behanving ... instead of my acting talents.

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

I agree it is all well and good to know the rules and rights but if I was a cop and some 20 year old in a skyline started getting all by the book then I would try my hardest to hit them up on every defect tec I could. My missus is trining to be a cop at the moment, so it has given me a really good insight into what it takes to be a "good" cop. The thing most of the cops out there probably start out as good cops but over the years get comfortable and start not caring, or once in the job getting on a constant power trip. Also I dont know anything about other states procedure but for the AFP the police are under so much scrutiny its ridiculous. The amount of protocol and procedure that you have to know and stick to just when pulling someone over is crazy and if you get it wrong you are suposed to be dealt with. We should all know our rights and when we are pulled over by an arrogant dick for nothing we should retaliate with the appropriate measures but not all police are assholes. I have had heaps of bad dealings with the police, but just the other day I had a really good one, like anything there is good and bad.

[GTRgeoff]

I have a number of police as personal friends across the country so in general I hold them in the highest regard but it is true some get out of control.

Johnny this has been covered many times before, but mostly in isolation from state to state. Cazz is a good resource and is almost always involved in these discussions as well.

My recommendations for dealing with an officer is to first be polite, even friendly and guage their attitude. If they start ranting or carrying on with BS then you have the right to request the conversation be recorded. This often results in their attitude settling, they go get the recorder or they get in their car and drive off. I have used this a number of times when dealing with idiots on a collision course with an ethics tribunal. It also helps to be able to display an ID that makes them think twice about fronting in court to question your integrity.

Unless you are an armed and known dangerous criminal there is no reason at all for them to act in any other way than polite. Likewise, they have a job to do so if you have been a dickhead, just wear it on the chops, be nice and say thankyou.

Johnny you may want to get involved and contribute to www.roadsense.com

Geoff

[Johnny Cash]

Hey

Im studying legal studies and think this is a very interesting thread.

Just wondering if there is any of these documents available relating to WA? eg, "Police Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000" relating to WA

in the past ive just used the fact im female.. eg, a few months ago i was pulled up for street racing, I put on an academy awarding winning sob act... and got off with a warning. but yeah... should stick to actual info...and behanving ... instead of my acting talents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, the only thing I have found so far is the Police Act 1892. However, that's pretty outdated, I think there would be SOMETHING new by now. Will have a look later on.

[Johnny Cash]

To GTRgeoff

Thanks for the link - I'll chase it up.

I've been in contact with the Motor Accident Commission and various legislative bodies dealing with motoring offences, application of laws regarding motoring offences, and the public attitude towards the police that survives as a result of this behaviour. The main point I stick to, and I believe is true, is that not one person on this forum would see a police officer driving next to them and feel safe. And that's a problem that has to be addressed by BOTH sides before any progress is made.

Thanks.