Police Powers And Your Rights

[4teecal]

Police do their job (not very good sometimes) and put people before the courts and the courts let the system down.

Solicitors and lawyers are just tick, fleas and leaches. They just suck the blood out of their clients with the bullshit they spin and the amount of time they waste in the courts.

[KrazyKong]

I think the penalties aren't harsh enough and no Magistrate / Judge has the guts to use the maximum penalty. They give ‘discounts’ when some low life pleads early and when a crook get a ‘harsh sentence’ they just take it to the district or supreme courts and have it reduced.

I could go ‘hurt’ someone and if they were to die I would probably be charged with murder. I would use the excuse, I didn’t mean to kill him, give my reasoning why and probably have a backup charge of manslaughter added to the charge sheet. I’ll then make a ‘plea bargain’ to say I’ll plead guilty to the manslaughter if they dropped the murder charge – hey presto, a much shorter time behind bars…

I think it’s very disgraceful…

Police do their job (not very good sometimes) and put people before the courts and the courts let the system down.

Solicitors and lawyers are just tick, fleas and leaches. They just suck the blood out of their clients with the bullshit they spin and the amount of time they waste in the courts.

I whole heartedly agree that the courts let the system and the people down.

Just as lawyers can be the scum of the earth, they can also help innocent people who have been wrongfully charged and accused.

Moral of the story is not all police are jerks, and not all lawyers are leeches either.

Edited April 1, 2010 by KrazyKong

[Granthem]

I am (nearly) a lawyer. To be honest alot of people are fairy thankful for the assistance they receive in most matters.

Hell if you wanna stand up and do a few months jail instead of asking for representation, so be it!

[Eugene2032]

It would have to be something pretty f**ked for me to 'fight' the charge and goto court.

I've seen too many people do it and fail.

[GTR-N1]

Unless all parties tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...,

adversarial law degrades into a matter of winning or losing.

And the casualty is...

Justice!

[Charlie Bun]

Shhiiiet this topic is long and old as... but i am very impressed with the ideas and discussions from all of yous.

Some topics were related to my situation and some weren’t. However I’m going to share my good and bad experience I have had with cops in the past.

Btw I live in Melbourne

1. A year ago when I had my 4 doors R34 NON TURBO, I was driving to Ringwood through Knox city and a cop's car was following me and I even noticed it. There were 2 of them in the car pulled me over and started to check my car all around. He gave me a huge list of defections on my car along with an extra fine for failing to display the P-Plate stickers.

The defections were:

- Bold tyres (The back two were and I’m not saying anything to that and I was going to replace new ones anyway)

- Dark tint sticker on the brake light that says SKYLINE (The light on the boot)

- The exhaust was not well secured

- Tinted window (All or most of the stock imported Skyline R34s have tinted on the back half windows)

- Eye lids (wtf is wrong with having them on?)

- Head lights need to be polished (Which I had them polished ONE week before that night because I had a minor accident)

- I forgot what the other one was but I remember there were 7 items.

Another fine was 'Failed to display P-platters on the window'

I did have the P plates on both of my front and back windows but the back one u hardly see because of the back window was tinted. ON TOP OF THAT I also had the Magnetic P plates on my hood and at the back of my boot. I had them on because some old people can’t see the Ps from the inside of my car. However, I bought these plates when I went to Sydney for a holiday. The P-plates in Victoria have green background and white letter P whereas the NSW ones have white background and green letter P. (STILL HE DIDTN LET ME GO FOR THAT ONE EVEN WHEN I ASKED FOR THE EXCEPTION)

I can still remember his name because a lot of people know this officer and I have heard good stories about him. His name is ADAM PETTETT and I am not sure if the story I was told from other people was true or not but here was the story.

I was told that his son used to have a R34 GTR and he smashed the car so bad and killed himself. This is why he hates Japanese cars so bad that he would pull over any Japanese and modified cars over when he sees it. (Once again this was what I heard)

He pulled a lot of people over and they complained about him and he got moved to a different area for 6 months and he just got back and he started doing it again.

Anyways, I made some phone calls and researches about it and I wrote a letter of complaint about it and surprisingly I got away from it. With the defections I couldn’t write a letter about it because of the facts about the tyres and the exhaust.

YES, guys you can complain about police and there are people out there will deal with them. If you call up any head office and complain about any officer, they will just back each other up. However, they will and most probably have a meeting with the particular officer and discuss about it. (Same with your family.. If someone comes to your door to revenge one of your brothers or sisters for doing something wrong or hurting someone, you will back them up at that point of time but after that you will deal with your brother or sister individually right?)

I forgot what the address was, where u can write a letter to but I still remember the name of it. It is called the "PENALTY REVIEW BOARD"

In the letter I told my situation and along with some questions where they wouldn’t be able to answer such as:

If the tinted was illegal than why did that car past the RWC and got registered in the first place? (NOT to mention I bought that car off a dealer and the dealer did all the paper work)

I also told them the story about what I have heard about ADAM PETTETT. So they let me off this one which saved me $175 fine and 3 demerit points. (Btw I thought not having or failing to display your P plates will face a $550 fine? not $175?)

SO GUYS WHO LIVE IN VICTORIA, if you have a modded car or imported car you shouldn’t drive around Knox's area. If you have to, just keep an eye on cops cars.

Regards

Charlie

[Charlie Bun]

2. I was pulled over by a cop’s car and there were 3 officers in the car, one male and two female officers. This was because I made a sudden move turn lmao.

Anyways, so a very young female police officer came to my window and asked if I have any illegal items in the car. I said “nope” she then asked if she could search my car and I said go for it and I went out of my and let the girl did her job. While the she was searching the other two were standing behind my car and ready to back the girl up or something.

So she found a red thingy inside my car and asked what it was, I told her it was a flare.

She asked again why you have a flare inside the car. I told her it is for in case you have an emergency and you use it to tell or warn others (well that is what I believe it is for) and I also told her that all the imported skylines have one with it and she was surprised about it.

And while she was searching my whole car I was just standing with the other two officers talking about other things just to get rid of my boredom I told them I was almost accepted into the Darwin (NT) police force. (Not going into that because it is too long but it was a great experience I had with their recruiting processes and if you really want to know then I will tell you about it)

So after she finished searching my car and I asked did you fine anything? ‘Nope’ she replied and they let me go.

I had a bad day that day, I lady reversed into my newly R34 GTT 2 doors and when she got out of her car and put her hand on her chest and said something really funny. “ Omg i didn’t see you car as you were on my blind spot, I am so sorry for this, are you angry at me for the damage I did to your car?” NO SHIT I WAS PISSED BECAUSE I JUST BOUGHT IT AND YET MY CAR WAS IN A STATIONARY POISITION, HOW COULD SHE NOT SEE THAT? (Careless driver). But no I said its ok let the insurance deal with the damages. So we both exchanged the details and left. This happened 2 hours before I got pulled over for a search.

So the point is, just be nice and polite to police because they have the power to do anything and the more you piss them off the more they will revenge by picking any little things on your car and give you fines. As someone that did legal study has mention and I myself know quite a lot about laws.

So Yes, they

- Have the power of arrest

- They can legally break the law (i.e how cool is that when they can speed and drive through red lights but we cant?)

- Can use force given by the authority but it must be necessary, reasonable and not disproportionate to the objective.

Ask them if they know the 51 words with one single comma and one full stop. It listed under Crimes Act 1958, Section 462A. “A person may use such force not disproportionate to the objective as believes on reasonable ground blah blah blah.

Well that was my side stories... Sorry I have bore you.

Charlie

[.:: GimpS-R34 ::.]

cool story(s) bro

[GTR-N1]

^ ^ ^ Mr A.P. of Knox needs counselling > cognitive therapy methinks Charlie.

[Birds]

No Terry, AP needs ECT...a good 250,000 volts of it...or a nice tap to the frontal lobe.

There's tons of bullshit stories about why he's a dick (son died driving import, dog ran over by import, daughter was a passenger in import and died, import crashed into his house blah blah), you can't really believe any of them...and I very much doubt it was a deciding factor in the review board releasing your penalty - probably wasn't wise to include some urban legend like that in your letter, cause it makes your case sound silly.

I agree with you Charlie that the best course of action when pulled over is to play it nice and be honest, but don't do it expecting to get away - as you've seen in your first story, some people are just dicks with a chip on their shoulder (usually for being short) and will search your whole car to find something. You can't even expect to get away these days, after a cop has told you he couldn't find anything and to be on your way - many have received an EPA notice later in the mail, which we now know can be issued if a cop *suspects* your exhaust is too loud without actually testing it.

Everyone around the eastern suburbs knows to avoid Knox, even people in the western suburbs know this. But it is useful advice to write a letter of complaint if you were treated unfairly or illegally - if enough of them pile up, somewhere up top will do something about it. There's a reason AP got moved in the first place. Just don't write complaints if you got defected for something that is actually illegal, it makes us all look like tools.

[R31Nismoid]

Charlie, to sum your first story is easy.

you drove a car with several legal issues, and was busted for it.

harden up princess.

[NISSAN GTR]

Johnny Cash , give us some tips for S.A , do we have to get out of the car once pulled over ?

[Galois]

I guess here is a best place as any to ask:

I was driving my magna from Sydney to Newcastle a couple of months ago. After about 3 minutes on the f3 we (my partner and I) saw a motorbike policeman pulling someone over. The traffic was pretty heavy, I had cruise control on the speed limit and was overtaking regularly. The police officer quickly caught up and spend the next 10 or so minutes between 50m behind us and 200-300m in front, looking every driver in the face as he overtook them.

After about 15km he dropped back, and as I pulled into the middle lane he light up the lights and pointed to me. I was booked for travelling in the right lane... while physically acting to not do that.

I was told that I had been travelling in the right lane for the extent of the freeway up to that point, that I was holding a bunch of cars up, that I was intentionally travelling slowly, that I was not overtaking and that I had caused several people to move into the middle and left lanes to undertake me. When I went to argue he told me to take it up with a court.

None of which was in any way accurate

Now I travel between sydney and newcastle on a weekly basis and have done so for a couple of years now, and I know that I have literally spent hours trapped behind slow cars in the right lane. I absolutely hate lane hogs and recognise how dangerous it is to undertake. More to the point, I have always been very aware of travelling in the right lane and have NEVER been in the right lane whilst not overtaking.

I'm not really sure what to do, I have no evidence to say that I was abiding the law, so to go to court would just be mr plod's word against a 24 year old male. Not ideal.

I wrote a letter to the leniency/appeals board who said that they cannot do anything to help and that I still have the option to take it to court.

So I guess my only practical option is to pay the ~$280 fine and cop the 2 demerit points, as there's a few stories of people spending thousands on court fees and then loosing the case as well. (Also, my first two demerit points, I owned an r34 gtt for 14 months and get loose my first two a couple of months after buying a magna).

Thanks in advance for any advice

[RB25PWR]

How long were you in the far right lane? Do you really, utterly 100% think you were in the right? Unless he was in the worst mood ever I can't see why he would give you the ticket unless you were indeed hogging the right lane. Be more specific rather than "None of what he said was accurate" -- you're going to be specific in court.

In order to go to court you need some sort of proof to disprove the ticket. He will sit in the box and say something like "I observed the vehicle for over X kilometres in lane 3, the traffic was heavy and other cars began to move out of lane 3 because the vehicle in question was not adhering to the "keep left unless over taking" ... I saw multiple cars move out of lane 3 and into lane 2 in order to get past the vehicle in question because the vehicle was not merging back into lane 2 after over taking"

What is your rebuttal going to be to that?

You could go to court and just plead your case, say you travel from Newcastle to Sydney or whatever a lot and are always concious of not being in the right hand lane for too long. If you sound genuine you could get a reduced fine or something a like. It will depend on what judge you get, if anyone believes that all magistrates are completely fair and don't let their own prejudices come into play then all I have to say is you're being naive. I'm intentionally being vague, but if you don't understand I'll PM it.

I've been to court for a person speeding. However the judge reduced the fine by some hundred dollars... well I won't give you the actual quote but it was words to the effect of "I can see you're not some <insert word here>; and you did not intend to speed"

Roll the dice if you're feeling lucky.

[hamiltonau]

wow comforting words.

nice to hear it confirmed once and for all that the 'system' is based more on mood/personal bias and luck than actual justice and fairplay.

i too hate right lane hogs with a passion and am surprised to hear of someone actually getting booked for it. This is why HWP cars have video camera, do the bikes not have this feature? A mate of mine was pulled over for passing through a red light, was sure he hadnt, disputed it and in court the cop produced dash cam evidence which showed him blowing through one of those intermediate pedestrian only red lights.

Egg all over his face but at least there was no doubt and he copped it sweet, in a case like this where its ur word against his.

ouch.

a good reason to get your own dash cam and just run it off the car power, i hear you can get ones pretty cheap on ebay now. not high quality,but good enough to save your ass the next time your sure its an unfair ticket..

in this case though, dont like your chances.

[Galois]

I'm as sure as I can be of the day, I was a little shaken as it's honestly the first bad experience I've had being pulled over, but I pulled over soon after to remember as best I could and document the event. I would be far more specific in court, but i figured readers on here don't need to hear my detailed, obviously one sided arguments.

To be honest I don't blame the officer, I just think he was distracted monitoring the other cars in the heavy traffic, and getting quite a distance up the road from me. When I pulled into the middle lane after overtaking a few cars I had someone tailgating me (and speeding, that's beyond the point though). I also accept that if I was in his position and I didn't see the car in question move out of the right lane over a period of X km I may have done the same thing, ie book them. I certainly know I got him in a bad mood, if there was ever a time to record a conversation, that was it. But again he's a guy with a life outside of our interaction, I don't blame him for that. To be completely honest, I just feel unlucky.

I also concede that as a judge I'd take the word of an experienced officer over some young guy wasting the courts time on a small-ish offence.

But, as you say, I have no evidence, and whether or not he can produce any is irrelevant. But thanks rb25 for confirming that, I'll just have to pay the fine. With a dying family member, final year of uni and working on my plate I really want to avoid wasting a day in court getting humiliated.

Seriously considering a dash cam though lol.

I know that there would be very few police that would abuse their powers, intentionally anyways, but rb25 what would you do if you felt you were unfairly punished on the road? Or is there little to no tolerance for police off duty? Or, is it settled more civilly in house (I don't mean corruptly, but an officer booked for doing a few km over is a different case to some hoon)?

[Birds]

Dash cams and GPS are very much sounding like a way of the future...in a time when we can only rely on ourselves to protect ourselves...it would be a good idea to keep the feds honest.

[rb26zed]

' timestamp='1262872065' post='5021949']

I think the penalties aren't harsh enough and no Magistrate / Judge has the guts to use the maximum penalty. They give ‘discounts’ when some low life pleads early and when a crook get a ‘harsh sentence’ they just take it to the district or supreme courts and have it reduced.

I could go ‘hurt’ someone and if they were to die I would probably be charged with murder. I would use the excuse, I didn’t mean to kill him, give my reasoning why and probably have a backup charge of manslaughter added to the charge sheet. I’ll then make a ‘plea bargain’ to say I’ll plead guilty to the manslaughter if they dropped the murder charge – hey presto, a much shorter time behind bars…

I think it’s very disgraceful…

Police do their job (not very good sometimes) and put people before the courts and the courts let the system down.

Solicitors and lawyers are just tick, fleas and leaches. They just suck the blood out of their clients with the bullshit they spin and the amount of time they waste in the courts.

This statement just shows how little you actually know about the system.

[.:: GimpS-R34 ::.]

This statement just shows how little you actually know about the system.

Nah, he seen it for his owns eyes on that TV show LOL

[Birds]

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